Broad Recognition

A Feminist Magazine at Yale

Liberté (for some), (In)Egalité, Fraternities: TFM and American culture

Photo: Otis Allan Glazebrook/totalfratmove.com

Yesterday, I discovered totalfratmove.com. Today, I am an addict.

Reading Total Frat Move (TFM) is somewhat akin to (forgive the cliché) watching a train wreck. Only here, the train conductors are the hundreds of men and women who write posts and comment on TFM every day, and the train wrecked is our nation, signaling an all-but-impending tailspin towards doom.

Before I go any further, let me explain the concept behind TFM. Frat brothers and sorority sisters (“Sorostitutes,” a moniker used not just by the brothers, but also by the women themselves) write anonymous posts about things they do, say or think that are total frat or total sorority moves. The forum resembles fmylife.com, but instead of ridiculing themselves in a self-deprecating, though often tragic, way, the authors of each TFM (or TSM, for sorostitutes) post instead ridicule and mock everyone who is not them: GDIs (God Damn Independents, aka people not in a fraternity or sorority), women, poor people, African-Americans, Latinos, intellectuals, northerners, guidos, environmentalists, feminists, non-alcoholics, liberals and people who have had to work to get a job or get into college. In this world, if you are not a white male in a fraternity who owns a gun, a “fratdaddy” who receives BJs and sandwiches on a daily basis from one of many sorostitutes, you might as well go kill yourself.

The men (that feels like an overly respectful term for them) who author the posts are at their core deeply anti-intellectual. While there has always been a strain of this attitude in American public, political and private lives, as noted by Richard Hofstadter in his appropriately titled book, Anti-Intellectualism in American Life, we Yalies live in an environment where it is cool to be smart, to do well on your own merit, to have a sense of history, to help poor people. While this might not be the attitude of every individual on this campus, this is the overwhelming ethos of Yale. In instances where this ethos is violated (the DKE incident comes to mind), it can become an outrage among students, if not the administration. From the looks of TFM, it is more than likely that something similar to what we experienced a month ago at Yale could happen daily at a large state university in the South (I don’t mean to generalize, but literally every post on TFM comes from below the Mason-Dixon line, which is “[a]n imaginary line that separates F[rat] from N[ot]F[rat]. TFM”), and no one would cry out. Or if some did, they’d hear in response, “Told my slampiece her nike shorts looked kind of tight on her. She slapped me. Then she gave me dome. TFM”, “Got tired of the same sorostitutes on campus, so I ordered a Ukrainian chick online for my winter formal. TFM” or “The only difference between a sorostitute and a can of dip is that I keep my cans when I’m done with them TFM.”

This is not to say that the DKE incident here means nothing because sexism, misogyny, casual treatment and derogation of women are more prevalent elsewhere.  Rather that this seems to be an American pandemic. It is a belated reaction to the feminist movement and its subsequent backlash by people who weren’t alive at the time, but have been taught to feel that women need to be put in their proper place.

More astonishing is its reinforcement among women: “When I refused to take any early morning classes my advisor asked me what I was going to do when I had to wake up early for work after college. I told her all I plan on waking up early to do is morning bj’s and cooking breakfast for my rich husband. TSM” While there is nothing wrong with the aspiration to be a stay-at-home wife or mother, there is something perverse about aspiring to achieve nothing from a college education besides a rich husband and the perfection of the subtle art of the blowj.

These men and women wish to return to a world where merit means nothing. They are proud of being stupid and academically unsuccessful, because they think the world will reward them for being in a frat and having wealthy parents: “Made a 1.75 this semester. TFM” A 1.75? I’m surprised this fratdaddy can read and write. For them, being stupid is completely irrelevant to their future wealth and success, and being poor is a subhuman quality that they will never have to face: “We play poop dollar and watch the GDI’s pick up a dollar with poop on it, how poor are you that you even bother to pick up a dollar? TFM”; “Just drove through the poor section of town. It was out of my way, but worth laughing at the unfortunates. TFM”.

Despite my absolute repulsion at the values espoused on this website, I see a deep-seated terror in the hearts of all these fratdaddies and sorostitutes. The world has moved away from a time when white southern men held dominion over the rest of the country.  In any other context than their frats, these men would not succeed. They rely on their connections because they have to. They spew racism and other forms of hate speech because that is the only way they know how to cling to a world that doesn’t exist anymore. The civil war ended 150 years ago, Jefferson Davis was a hideous racist, and having a family plantation that housed slaves should be a source of shame, and yet, these are bragging rights for these men: “Family Bloodline to Jefferson Davis. TFM”; “I live on a plantation that has been in the family since before the civil war… TFM. You can keep the ranch”; “My great great grandfather’s name is John Wilks Booth Greer. Just to represent. TFM”. This is a world in which violence and discrimination are rewarded because these men have nothing else: “Arizona cops legally allowed to racially profile. TFM”; “Fucked an Asian slampiece (yes they exist) and refused to pull out unless she screamed “Me so horny”. TFM”.

While the existence and popularity of a site like this is horrifying and seems to reaffirm the “Tea Party” values that the media tells us are “sweeping the nation,” I’m not scared.  I have faith not only in our political system, but also in the progressive and tolerant values that exist throughout this country. A site like totalfratmove.com makes this problem seem magnified (with over 13,000 fans on Facebook and over 24,000 followers on Twitter, it certainly has an audience), but I refuse to believe that this backwards way of thinking—a value system that excludes victims of racial, gender and financial prejudice—is really poised to take over this country. At many of the difficult times in our nation’s history, the public has taken the side of progress over the side that favors our tradition of prejudice and intolerance. Although this strain will always be present, it is not omnipresent. I don’t think TFM signals a return to the endemic racism, sexism and intolerance of an age before our own, but maybe I have been made in the mold of the traditional American optimist. This doesn’t mean that the problem has been solved, but that America won’t let it take over our national discourse, politics or consciousness. USA! (TFM?)

Tatiana Schlossberg is a junior in Yale College and a Managing Editor of the Yale Herald.

This article does not necessarily reflect the views of Broad Recognition.

Comments (304)

  • Lovely, lovely column.

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 4th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

  • You claim that you are against the racist and sexist views of the ” southern white males ” who seem to be projecting these hideous views in your opinion, yet you generalize just as easy in your column. If it offends you so much that we live our lives the way we do, then just simply ignore it. Writing some feminist liberal garbage about how the south is a breeding ground for ignorance is just plain ignorant in it self. While you may seem to think that being a house wife is undesirable, many women do and will become them not because they are in your words ” stupid and academi­cally unsuccessful ” but because they wish to live a life where they are able to raise a family and take care of the family. Just because you are a working women who wishes to enter the work force when you graduate, does not make those who do not share those same views wrong. The fact that you are the managing editor of the Yale Herald is absolutely astonishing considering the content and the absolute prejudice that is put into this column. No wonder my family chose Harvard instead.

    posted by Montgomery Scott Elliott Davis IV      November 15th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

  • You must first realize that even now, the people at TFM are making fun of this column. And why? because the site TFM itself is a simply a joke. Its the same kinda commentary *most* men (and yes, non-feminist joke loving women) talk about at a bar or around a poker table. You have taken this joke, and attempted to frame it in a political and historical context. This is categorically absurd. Your article is what TFM attempts pokes fun at- people like you. People who take college satire seriously enough to bring it this kind of attention in some sort of progressive sacrosanct tirade from the Ivory towers youths. There is nothing courageous or profound about this article.

    posted by Thomas Jefferson      November 15th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

  • Tatiana Schlossberg is a GDI

    posted by Fratstar      November 15th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

  • Yes. Yes. Yes.

    posted by Melissa      November 15th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

  • Let us compare the so called hate rhetoric you so devotedly have taken issue with in your column; a column which I presume is not first and foremost satirical (like TFM), a column I assume you wish to be taken seriously:

    Your people: “we Yalies live in an envi­ron­ment where it is cool to be smart, to do well on your own merit, to have a sense of his­tory, to help poor peo­ple. While this might not be the atti­tude of every indi­vid­ual on this cam­pus, this is the over­whelm­ing ethos of Yale.”

    Us people: “train wreck” “Tailspin towards doom” “Deeply anti-intellectual” “sex­ism, misog­yny, casual treat­ment and dero­ga­tion of women” “belated reac­tion to the fem­i­nist move­ment and its sub­se­quent back­lash by peo­ple who weren’t alive at the time, but have been taught to feel that women need to be put in their proper place” “a world where merit means noth­ing” “stu­pid and aca­d­e­m­i­cally unsuc­cess­ful” “stu­pid and aca­d­e­m­i­cally unsuc­cess­ful” “They spew racism and other forms of hate speech because that is the only way they know how to cling to a world that doesn’t exist any­more” “Tea Party” val­ues” “a value sys­tem that excludes vic­tims of racial, gen­der and finan­cial prejudice” “endemic racism, sex­ism and intol­er­ance”

    Now, I must ask, to us “common ignorant stupid southern folk”, this seems to be the classic silver spoon elitist babble vs the SEC school men and women. Because, of course, everyone who has went to Yale has deserved it and acted entirely benevolent toward the common men and women of the world, haven’t they?

    posted by Bill Buckley      November 15th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

  • check plus

    posted by Sorostitute      November 15th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

  • in my opinion, it is hypersensitive elitist self-labeled intellectuals such as yourself that are eroding the fabric of this country with your boundless insistence on all things politically correct. these greek organizations you insist on lambasting raise millions of dollars for charity and perform thousands of collective hours of community service. guaranteed to be a lot more than you and the feminist black panthers accomplished this past year.

    dominating some self-righteous feminist hippie on her own blog, TFM.

    posted by Noble Leslie DeVotie      November 15th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

  • TFM is not funny, it’s pathetic. Real men and women have moved beyond your offensive and infantile sense of humor and believe that laughing at marginalized communities is just not that cool.

    posted by Margaret      November 15th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

  • Sorry someone pointed out that the SEC is really only a football conference that exists to fill stadiums and house morons that post on TFM.com for four years so that their parents can take a break from wiping the drool off their chins. Oh, and Mr. IV- no one is impressed that you have a bunch of dumb WASPy names in a row. What would really impress me, though, is if you knew that itself is one word, not two.

    posted by GDI KING      November 15th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

  • People should be ashamed to live in historical plantation houses, rather than some grubby sub-division of a city? Places in the south hold great historical value and culture that we can never take back and should be preserved. It’s people like you who make America look bad to other countries. We were founded off of ideals and principles that should be well kept in place. Greeks do way more for the world then you ever will writing your little column. It’s funny the only reason anyone has even seen this is because total frat move is making fun of it. I guess you can thank them for one thing right?

    posted by W      November 15th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

  • I personally have never seen anything racist on TFM. But as for “marginalized” communities- I don’t believe most “minorities” are marginalized from the American civil society. In fact, my “minority” friends (I presume you mean to say Americans of African, Latino, or Asian decent, who I like to simply call ‘my fellow Americans’, but people like yourselves like to classify) would certainly take offense to you labeling them marginalized.

    As for “poor” people- well statically almost everyone on TFM (between 80-90%) are 2nd generation wealthy. This means that for most of us, our parents made it by working their ass off. This is actually a common theme on TFM. Our parents worked hard and we are proud of them. Yes, an alien idea to you I’m sure, but we love, respect, and are proud of our family.

    We are poking fun of the world around us, many of the frat guys on the website makes fun of themselves, as do the girls. Get over yourselves.

    posted by Thomas Jefferson      November 15th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

  • Tatiana Schlossberg….are you a black jew? NF

    posted by Who are you?      November 16th, 2010 at 12:00 am

  • concur sir. I’ve logged over 100 hours of community service this year and personally wrote a $10,000 check. I’m an undergrad in college, and I did it all in the name of my fraternity.

    posted by Thomas Jefferson      November 16th, 2010 at 12:03 am

  • Second

    posted by TFTC      November 16th, 2010 at 12:05 am

  • “We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It’s one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it’s another to think that yours is the only path.”

    posted by must be a gdi      November 16th, 2010 at 12:06 am

  • It is well beyond their contemplation. They can not understand sarcasm. Apparently that comes from parents who laughed at the “flower children” who never worked, and believe that time out is an acceptable punishment. Beating builds character.

    posted by Game On      November 16th, 2010 at 12:11 am

  • Third.

    posted by Michelle      November 16th, 2010 at 12:22 am

  • I went to Yale. TFM.

    posted by George W. Bush      November 16th, 2010 at 12:29 am

  • I think it’s slightly ridiculous to completely bash an entire set of organizations simply because of a public website. There is no basis to say that everything posted on Totalfratmove.com is even true, let alone the real thoughts/actions of the people posting them. Greek organizations do tremendous amounts of good for their communities- they foster brotherhood/sisterhoods and do large amounts of charity work, as well as simply connect people with common values, interests and goals. Also, if I remember correctly, Yale doesn’t have Greek life. So unless something has changed since I applied to college, this article really has no basis to bash fraternities and sororities.

    posted by PrincessofPearls      November 16th, 2010 at 12:32 am

  • I’m really impressed by your impeccable ability to critique others grammar on a website! That really shows how intelligent you truly are and how superior your apparent non-SEC school education is! If you really want to be so literal and politically correct, how about we dissect your chosen alias then, shall we GDI King? I mean, since finding humor in something that may be offensive to some and highly satirical in nature is so looked down upon by “Yalies”, we should be able to reciprocate the negativity in our defense, am I correct? So, let us begin then. GDI… or God damn independent, is a moniker given to those who are not involved with Greek life, which depending on the school and population may mean that you are a majority, the common man. Now, the word “KING”, so capitalized, I’m assuming from your lack of attention as an adolescent, means: “one that holds a preeminent position; especially : a chief among competitors”, in the context in which you used it, correct? But using the word King means you negate the meaning of GDI, its rather difficult to not be an elitist monarch. So, while you attack and attempt to belittle the Greek system for being “elitists”, you are aligning yourself with a term often used to describe the elite. History has shown that there have been Kings who abuse their own people, execute their wives, spend recklessly, and ruin countries. So, using your logic, you are really an oppressive, egotistical, elitist.
    In my personal opinion though, I believe you truly dont understand the full nature of everything encompassed in Greek life and thus, you choose to lash out at the Greek system and even Southern schools because, you sir, are ignorant as well. To lump those of us who proudly attend SEC schools as morons who need our parents to wipe our drool off of our chins is an offensive generalization to say the least, much like lumping everyone from North of the Mason-Dixon into the category “guido”. Until you are in a fraternal organization, or attend a school in the SEC, I suggest you keep your harsh opinions to yourself to prevent looking idiotic.

    posted by Scarlett Vanderford      November 16th, 2010 at 12:38 am

  • Tatiana Schlossberg’s main thesis here is that the “men” and “women” who post on TFM are of an anti-intellectual bent. The rest of her article strongly supports that, and frankly so do the majority of the posts on Total Frat Move. It would be very hard for any reasonable person to say that these “frat daddies” and “sorostitutes” are at all interested in the merits of academia. Also, to say that the majority of TFM’s are satirical, is to miss the attitude of the site, and of the elitist south entirely.

    posted by J.E.C. IV      November 16th, 2010 at 12:43 am

  • you are right. the only reason tfm has so many fans is that it is kinda funny. at the end of the day the website does have some kinda stupid charm to it. most posts circulate about the same theme, so watch it die out in a couple of years life fmylife.com or textsfromlastnight. i dont know why the author doesnt bring that point up. maybe because she herself is trying to bask the attention from writing a one sided strongly worded article.

    posted by cherry sperry      November 16th, 2010 at 12:46 am

  • Someone has no grasp of satire.

    posted by Brennan      November 16th, 2010 at 12:49 am

  • I apologize for my generalizations. I was taking the posts on Totalfratmove.com as representative of a larger cultural issue where it is okay to say these kinds of things, even in jest. The fact that Totalfratmove doesn’t require anyone to accept responsibility for things he or she says makes it seem (to me) more likely that the authors are saying things that, while more inflammatory, are things they think or have done or think are funny, but wouldn’t own up to if it were attached to their name. I do not take TFM to be representative of every person in every frat–just of the people who participate in perpetuating this kind of derogation (WHETHER IN JEST OR NOT). I think that this kind of toxic speech is wrong, hurtful and intolerant, but I do not take it to be a universal fact at these schools or in Greek life in general. I’m sorry for not mentioning the charity work that these organizations do, but again, this is a commentary based on this website, not on fraternities and sororities in general. I don’t think that I’m being overly politically correct by wishing that people wouldn’t anonymously say prejudiced things because the internet allows it and members of the culture in which they live think it’s funny. But calling me a “feminist black panther” or asking if I am a “black jew” merely reinforces the stereotype presented by TFM and which I have described above. I am happy to have people disagree with me, as this is a statement of my opinion, and not of fact.

    Thomas Jefferson: what is “categorically absurd” about making political and historical commentary about political and historical “humor”?

    Montgomery Scott Elliot Davis: “While there is noth­ing wrong with the aspi­ra­tion to be a stay-at-home wife or mother, there is some­thing per­verse about aspir­ing to achieve noth­ing from a col­lege edu­ca­tion besides a rich hus­band and the per­fec­tion of the sub­tle art of the blowj.” The point is that being a stay-at-home wife and mother is a perfectly justified and honorable occupation for a woman–I merely call into question the devaluation of education, as well as the fact that, as it appears to me, there seems to be cultural pressure on these women to be nothing beyond slampiece trophy wives. The decision to be a full-time wife or mother should be a decision that empowers a woman, not a result of the cultural expectation or force to make her one.
    Additionally, you said: “If it offends you so much that we live our lives the way we do, then just sim­ply ignore it. ” For the same reason that you are writing here: you see something that threatens your belief system or way of life. Mine just happens to be different than yours. I’m not telling you how to live, just citing my problems with this particular website and the derogation it engenders.

    posted by Tatiana Schlossberg      November 16th, 2010 at 12:51 am

  • Since only negative things about Greek Life were written by this GDI, I thought I would add a little TFM to it.

    Giving thousands of dollars per semester to charity, logging hundreds of hours of community service, being successful political leaders of the USA and hundreds of corporations that are the backbone of the economy. TFM.

    Sorry for fratting… oh wait, nevermind. I’m not sorry at all.

    posted by Mr. Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 12:55 am

  • To suggest that we are all “stupid and academically unsuccessful” is extremely rude. Every Greek organization that I know of requires its members to maintain a minimum GPA in order to remain active. Simply because one person pulled a 1.75 does not mean that all of us do. Besides, who’s to say that even that guy is “stupid?” He could just simply not care about his grades, and if that’s the case, then it is his business and no one else’s. True, we join Greek Life for the connections that will help us out later in life, but we also join for the friendships and brotherhood that will last until the day we die. Please, try not to get too stressed out over the fact that one day we’ll be running the world; all because we relied on our connections. I’m sure it’s hard to understand how our life can be so put together, but try not to rack your brain over it too much. Also, please realize that TFM is a site that is over exaggerated and meant to be a fun place to go and waste time when a person is bored, and it is people like you who suck the fun out of everything. I suppose in the end, all I really want to say is: I find it sort of comical that you write an entire article about how bad it is to judge people, when in fact you are doing the very same thing. Enjoy your misery, GDI.

    posted by John Reily Knox      November 16th, 2010 at 12:55 am

  • you really just don’t get it. IT’S THE FACT THAT THESE KINDS OF JOKES ARE PERMISSIBLE THAT IS OFFENSIVE. WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT IT’S A JOKE, BUT THAT DOESN’T MAKE IT NOT OFFENSIVE.

    posted by yale      November 16th, 2010 at 1:08 am

  • Oh, dear. The TFM lynch mob has moved in.
    Tatiana is not speaking out against Greek Life. That is hardly the problem with TFM. Although the context is Fraternity life, she is focusing on the pathetic obsession with class and superiority that oozes out of TFM. Satire? Please. Y’all believe every word of it to be a stereotype, but still a desirable ideal.
    For all of the fabulous things that Greek Life provides for communities, they are hardly mentioned on the site. I rarely see “Worked our tushes off for our Philanthropy and wrote a $10,000 check to ___. TFM” or “Volunteered for a good cause.Making the Founding Fathers/Mothers proud: TFM”. Both of these would be FaF, but that is NOT what the site is about.

    posted by Pearls and Class      November 16th, 2010 at 1:12 am

  • STOP CALLING IT A FRAT. ITS FRATERNITY.

    posted by W      November 16th, 2010 at 1:20 am

  • Literally one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. I’m sorry but, from the beginning, this was full of generalizations and assumptions. I understand being offended but to not do enough research to figure out that TFM is supposed to be comedic. It’s a website meant to make readers laugh. The fact that you use the term “guido” without any recognition of the fact that it is a slur is just proof that you did not do your homework. I’m a firm believer that everyone can have and express his or her own opinion, but when you make uneducated assumptions and generalizations while claiming that you are in the right, you take things too far. Do you have any idea how many of the men and women that made this country as great as it is were in a sorority or fraternity? And how dare you insinuate that this is only coming from white people (largely males). I’m sorry you don’t like the site, but at least have the decency and the wits to not talk about it’s contributors in such a generalizing and irrational way as to make them all seem like ridiculous animals. You obviously don’t care enough about yourself or the public to do the research and take the time to weigh the pros and cons before vomiting your outrage. You claim to be so tolerant, yet you talk about how horrified you are by this sight among several other things. Please take a page from your own book and tolerate the existence of people and sites like this before you burn them at the stake. Tolerance works both ways and right now, people like you are the reason the general public takes it like a one-way street.

    posted by Ballard      November 16th, 2010 at 1:24 am

  • retort fail.

    definition of satire: the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

    Yes. This is exactly what is happening. We are using the literary devices of ridicule, sarcasm, etc in denouncing “GDI’s (or in other words, the MAJORITY of everyone on college campuses) because we (the minority on all college campuses) are under a constant cultural assault by the ilk of yourselves.

    The fact that you purport to have some sort of intellectual advantage over us misses the point. We are not, nor will we ever, *try” to beat you with academics prowess. We understand this is the main advantage you think you have over us, and this qualifies as “merit”. Yet even this is misunderstood. We know the path to success, money, benevolence in the form of charity to our fellow men, friendships, etc rests with other attributes than what a professor establishes is the proper mechanism to success. Our brain encompasses this thing called common sense, social skills, building coalitions, etc; characteristics we have acquired while pursuing our extracurriculars.

    And, finally, most of us are, in fact, smarter than you. Instead of writing a grand dissertation on the effect of Chapter 40B housing on urban development , we will be able to write a $100,000 check to cure the problem. So please stop whining to us about these issues. We are the people who will actually, in reality, help our society. You will contribute to the ills.

    posted by Thomas Jefferson      November 16th, 2010 at 1:36 am

  • “Elitist south?” That’s pretty offensive. Take a look at one of the south’s most-appreciated men, Robert E. Lee. I challenge you to do some research on him and his ideals. Do some research on the way things are done down in the south. Also, you know there are fraternities and sororities all over the country, right? This wasn’t some “South will rise again!” brain-child hatched by some backwoods hicks (which, for some reason, everyone assumes we all act like). Robert E. Lee’s definition of a gentleman (and I’m paraphrasing) was basically “A gentleman is anyone who has any power over someone else, but wields it with the utmost humility.” Go ahead and tell me that sounds elitist to you. I was raised in the South and I’ve had very few experiences with someone from the North (to whom I was not related) that treated me as an equal. Many people assume we all run on sweet tea, encourage racism, talk like we’ve never heard proper english, and think we’re better than everyone else. Here’s the reality: sweet tea is amazing, racism is a black-mark on our great nation’s record, our accents are normal to us (just like yours are to you), and I’ve never met friendlier people than those I find in East Tennessee.

    posted by Ballard      November 16th, 2010 at 1:37 am

  • never in the article is “elite” or “elite south” mentioned. please read the article before responding.

    posted by yale      November 16th, 2010 at 1:44 am

  • if you do not like the humor, there is no reason to visit the website. of course there is vulgar and offensive themes involved, however you cannot do what you are so clearly against and generalize a whole sect of a college population. this is the most clear and basic example of a hypocrite.

    posted by john      November 16th, 2010 at 1:47 am

  • Amen.

    posted by Austin Lenox      November 16th, 2010 at 1:56 am

  • Who doesn’t get a kick out of reading Total Frat Move. It’s like come on. Leave it to a Yale feminist to turn everything enjoyed in the world into some kind of a social injustice. Probably the subconscious guilt of being born with a silver spoon in her mouth herself. Let the rest of us try and enjoy life please, I’m begging you. Please Tatiana Schlossberg, try and laugh.

    posted by Tom G.      November 16th, 2010 at 2:21 am

  • That TFM about the 1.75 GPA had several comments on it ridiculing the poster (in fact, several TFM’s get ridiculed by commenters). Greek students as a group take pride in their grades.

    posted by Jordan      November 16th, 2010 at 2:38 am

  • Every culture in the world should have a voice to Tatiana Schlossberg, except the people of the southern United States of course. Get a clue, Tati.

    posted by TE Grove      November 16th, 2010 at 2:54 am

  • Agreed, it shocks me to witness this level of self-righteousness from an article disapproving of similar behavior on the TFM website. Most of these posts are exaggerations and poke fun at, as well as state, our traditional values. While I will force my self to respect the author’s opinion, I must convey my deep regrets about the rampant elitist opinions expressed in the article. This ignorant behavior, incredibly common in the liberal movements that began in the 60s and continue in a bastardized form, is hilariously in contradiction with the values of the philosophy. Perhaps next time you get high and write, sober up and remember that those thoughts came as the result of an impaired thought process and have no place in the rational world. Also, I would caution you to remember that when you denounce your political and social opponents to look inward and realize that your behavior, at its core, is often motivated by similar thought processes.

    posted by Publius      November 16th, 2010 at 3:09 am

  • What about the posts that mention the fraternity men who are serving our country overseas? Read the comments under those TFMs and photos. They are all in full support of our men and women of the armed forces and thank them for their service. That is one part of the website that is not at all satirical.
    “Sorostitute” and “fratdaddy” are not what we actually call ourselves. It’s a joke.

    posted by Chanel&Pearls      November 16th, 2010 at 3:10 am

  • amen. totally agree

    posted by AU      November 16th, 2010 at 3:12 am

  • What we find funny (on TFM) is offensive yet your liberal GDI associates are allowed to produce current movies that make fun of every group possible? I can guarantee no southern fraternal gentlemen are currently producing South Park.

    To belittle “elitist” fraternity men for participating in satirical or “offensive” humor is hypocricy at its best.

    posted by Lucas Fratterson      November 16th, 2010 at 4:00 am

  • You all do realize that a good 90% of the stuff reported on tfm never actually happened? It’s not a website that was meant to be taken seriously, it’s there for fun and for greeks around the country to laugh at and waste time on.

    posted by TFTC      November 16th, 2010 at 4:28 am

  • If totalfratmove.com is a fair representation of everyone in the Greek community does that mean that colleghumor.com is a fair representation of all college-aged students? No. And to those of you who are bashing on tfm simply because it’s offensive, and therefore maintain the idea that alI sorority and fraternity members are equally as offensive, do you also believe that the lecherous and degrading posts on collegehumor are the opinions of every college-aged student?? I seriously don’t understand why you would assume one website could represent an entire nation of students (well, an enitre nation of students who belong to a fraternity or sorority). And from one ambitious, intelligent, driven young lady to another, I would just like to say: do a little more research next time because this article makes empowered women all over the world seem judgemental and narrow-minded.

    posted by Liz      November 16th, 2010 at 4:29 am

  • Correct, comments about philanthropy are neither funny or entertaining.

    posted by Blackball Bill      November 16th, 2010 at 8:29 am

  • I think you are taking the content of TFM to seriously. You found the most controversial posts on TFM, tacked on some liberal buzz words like “toxic speech” and attempted to make a political statement. Get over yourself. It is a comedy website, not a political movement.

    I read TFM because it’s hilarious. If you can’t laugh at the following, I feel sorry for you:

    “Jesus inheriting the Universe from his Father. TFM.”

    “Making a pledge wear an America flag shirt everyday. We call him the ‘pledge of allegiance.’ TFM.”

    posted by Blackball Bill      November 16th, 2010 at 8:45 am

  • I love TFM. I’m not from the south, nor do I agree with ultra-conservative political views. But, I am Greek and I find entertainment in the website. One could argue textsfromlastnight.com only advances the stereotype that ALL young Americans are dim-wit drunkards that will do anything ridiculous for attention… this is the same demographic you perscribe to TFM.

    Take TFM move with a grain of salt. The website is not going to change the world for the or worese (or better) nor will your article change the way stereotypical fratstars want to live.

    posted by Brad      November 16th, 2010 at 9:43 am

  • This blog is very offensive to women contrary to what you intended. My mother was a stay at home mom who gave up her job to raise her kids and be a member of various parent organizations. She graduated with a degree from a prestigious college but used her talents to better our family by being the behind the scenes organizer for my father, who is the president of a company that my great-grand father started. I am sorry that all feminists feel that women should get more recognition, but behind every great man there is a great woman, and those great women realize that there husbands success is enough for them. The author of this article is obviously completely uneducated about anything that does not go on at her school because many sororities and fraternities all over the country actually maintain HIGHER gpa’s than their non-greek counterparts. So yes, we will continue to be proud of our parents, our country, and our accomplishments because we have earned the right. The next time that you would like to bash greek life, make sure that you look up how many organizations would not exist without our continued support.

    posted by Northerner      November 16th, 2010 at 10:08 am

  • “The world has moved away from a time when white south­ern men held domin­ion over the rest of the coun­try.” Sounds like the definition of Elite South….

    posted by Fratthew Lee      November 16th, 2010 at 10:17 am

  • Yes, but one of the comments supporting the articles argument used the phrase. Think before posting.
    J.E.C. IV says:
    November 16, 2010 at 12:43 am

    “and of the elit­ist south entirely.”

    posted by Ignorant fellow      November 16th, 2010 at 10:33 am

  • Yale. Feminist. Schlossberg. Enough said.

    posted by Fratty Arbuckle      November 16th, 2010 at 10:35 am

  • Brava Tatiana Schlossberg! Brilliant article– excellent piece of historical cultural analysis. I hope to read more from you in the future!

    posted by Alex      November 16th, 2010 at 11:14 am

  • The term “elite” or “elite south” doesn’t have to be directly stated. By arguing your point, you invalidate the entire article. Since we can’t comment on those two specific terms, you cannot comment on the so-called racism present on TFM. There has never been a post on TFM that stated “I am a racist”. Invalidating the argument that you support with your own argument-NF.

    posted by Count Fratula      November 16th, 2010 at 11:14 am

  • Dear Montgomery Scott Elliot Davis IV,

    You have wrongfully accused Tatiana of asserting that the “south is a breeding ground for ignorance.” Not once in her thoughtful, lucid, and lithe little column did she make such a claim. Nor did Tatiana argue that women choose to become housewives because they are “stupid and academically unsuccessful:” indeed, these are your words, not hers, despite your bold declaration of the opposite. She explicitly stated that “there is noth­ing wrong with the aspiration to be a stay-at-home wife or mother.” What she disputes is whether it is admirable for women to view college as a place at which they land “a rich hus­band” and perfect “the sub­tle art of the blowj,” as opposed to a place in which they can and should acquire an education.

    Tatiana is a wonderful editor, and the Herald is lucky to have her.

    I am sure it is best for everyone that your family chose Harvard.

    Yours,
    Chase

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 11:15 am

  • referring to JEC IV’s comment. please read what people are referring to before submitting.

    posted by Beaux      November 16th, 2010 at 11:18 am

  • I would just like to point out that not all southern people are like this. I am currently attending a southern university, and no one acts like this. You went on TFM and just picked out every negative one.

    posted by a oliver      November 16th, 2010 at 11:18 am

  • And that you made that comment here is a delicious if unintended example of paradox.

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 11:20 am

  • This is a wonderful piece of analysis. Well-written and smart. Good job Tatiana. xx

    posted by Casey Beckley      November 16th, 2010 at 11:21 am

  • You are aware that by writing this article you are generalizing a majority of the nation and a large population of college students? This is a clear example of liberal hypocrisy. I’m not surprised that an uneducated article like this would come from a northern university like Liberal. Freedom of speech only for those that you agree with right? Also, how did the mid-term elections look to you?

    posted by Johnny Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 11:29 am

  • I bet you tell racist jokes when you’re not spewing sweeping generalizations about a culture you clearly know nothing about.

    posted by Elizabeth      November 16th, 2010 at 11:37 am

  • THEN DON’T READ IT.

    posted by yale scholar      November 16th, 2010 at 11:40 am

  • Tatiana = galileo

    TFM = the inquisition

    posted by Catherine Hennesy      November 16th, 2010 at 11:42 am

  • I thought Yale was for intellectuals and academics, not jealous little girls who don’t understand sarcasm or humor. For an open-minded liberal, this was certainly a lie based, male bashing, southern despising, poorly written article. A good deal of what is in there is intentionally misleading or absolutely untrue. See, this is what makes conservatives better than liberals; we are forced to hear liberals spew everyday and must learn to combat it. You silly kids just get together and agree with each other. Great “intellectual diversity” you guys have up there.

    posted by Southern White Gentleman      November 16th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

  • Regardless of the blatant satire of political parties and non- greek associated individuals, TFM has still served as a forum for sharing positive information and support of many issues facing “Fratdaddy’s, Sorositutes, and GDI’s” alike.

    “Encouraging the women in the fight against, Remembering the women who put up a valiant fight, and Honoring the women who conquered Breast Cancer during the month of October. TFM”
    - Jeep Bromander IV

    “Praying for the fellow Frat Daddies, Sorostitutes, Slampieces, and GDIs alike at the University of Texas. TSM.”
    - Hotty Toddy

    “Wishing the USMC a Happy 235th Birthday. TSM. Wishing all the Fratdaddies over seas stay safe while protecting freedom. TFM.”
    - LionsAndPearls

    “Walked 5 miles in my frat cleats for breast cancer. Save the ta ta’s. TFM”
    - 1865

    posted by Bryan      November 16th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

  • I feel so sorry for the people who post on TFM…

    They are just insecure college boys who don’t have enough personality and individualism (despite all the republican spirit) to stand alone in the world without being able to define themselves in the shadow of a few letters from an alphabet that is as dead and irrelevant as they are. In desperation to try to find a way to still be important in society that has passed over them, they cling to the vague notions of the “past” (aka racism, sexism, etc) to try to hypnotize themselves into thinking they are in fact still better than everyone else.

    And the girls who post? What. the. fuck.? Any one who willing calls them self a “sorostitute” deserves the degrading and meaningless life they will no doubt live. Do you want to live in a home where you are not valued beyond your body? What do you think will happen when you get old and wrinkly? Do you want to feel like a second class citizen even in your own home? Do you want to spend the rest of your life desperately swallowing painkillers – trying to numb your brain when you see or here about women who have gone on to achieve things for themselves and actually lived a real life instead of being the lap dog of some frat-baby who doesn’t have the self-confidence to respect you and himself at the same time. Disgusting.

    I like independent women. I like women who are smarter then I am. I have enough goddamn ego to handle being in an egalitarian relationship. Also, smart and successful girls do it better. You will never know, Mr. TFM.

    You all pretend to be the heirs of Confederate-style plantation economies, but do you remember what happened to all that “southern money”? Sherman marched up your ass, burnt your house to the ground and killed all your sons. Never forget.

    You aren’t rich.

    You aren’t going to be rich.

    You aren’t going to be important or successful.

    Naming people in the past who have been successful and in frats doesn’t prove anything. Society is moving beyond family names and connections and you’re getting left behind.

    Identifying with a racist and sexist past doesn’t make you part of some proud tradition. It just makes you a fucking racist sexist ass.

    posted by General Sherman      November 16th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

  • You need to enable comments again. It’s freedom of speech. People are spending hours writing responses for nothing right now. It’s rude.

    posted by J&J      November 16th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

  • I think it is a little close-minded to be so set on your opinions about sororities and fraternities. For the most part, many Greeks are not like this and I wouldn’t be surprised that many, if not all, of these TFMs and TSMs are fake. This website is just a way for us Greeks to satire ourselves, and get some fun out of what everyone else seems to think we do. It should all be taken with a seriously small grain of salt. Most fraternity men and sorority women take pride, have class, and conduct themselves ethically and morally. Anyway, we’re all in college, to it really defeats the purpose. I figure, let us have all of our fun because in the end, I am happy to marry any one of the fraternity brothers I have met. Being from a very present Greek community and southern college, there are many stereotypes. But they are not particularly true. Yes, we do party and we do have fun, but most of us also work very hard in school. It may not be Yale or any other Ivy League, but we are proud in our culture and universities in the South. Being Greek gives us some advantage when it comes to networking, but I know, for a fact, that many Greeks still work hard in school, work for our own money, and are grateful for our brothers and sisters.

    You say that being at Yale is a “place to take pride in being smart, to do well on your own merit, to have a sense of history, and to help poor people.” We, Greeks do the exact same thing, and we also have a lot of fun doing it. No one said that it was wrong to have fun while doing your best at school. It is known that Greeks take pride in their academics or else we wouldn’t still be predominant in today’s world. We also take a great amount of pride in our history because we have over 200 years of history from our founders instilled in us. We also raise an exorbitant amount for our philanthropies. Just because we don’t go to shelters every day to feed the poor or visit the elderly at their homes, it is insulting to say that we don’t do anything. Our calendars every year are filled with philanthropy events that raise thousands of dollars to our national philanthropies and local charity groups. And we have FUN doing it. Not all work has to suck. We might have somewhat wealthy parents, but most of us aren’t trust fund babies and we take pride in what we have. I’m a sorority girl from the South and I find it insulting for you to demean us into spoiled and arrogant children. I am proud of who I am and the people I know in fraternities and sororities. Just remember that TFMs/TSMs are just jokes… inside jokes that you clearly don’t understand. We have a sense of humor and thinks it is fun to play up to our stereotypes. We are the ones who have some of the highest GPAs and not just in ridiculous majors. We learn many things in our sororities and we are lucky enough to bring it into our everyday lives.

    Whether we choose to live our life in class or debauchery is our choice and we have fun. It is college, and, therefore, we have socials. But we also take pride in our culture and live in our “southern way of life.” We are proud of who we are and who will become because of our brotherhoods and sisterhoods. In 50 or 60 years, we can look back on a wonderful time in college, share with our great grandchildren who are our legacies, and still be an expert on all the ritual and secrets from our organizations. That is a goal to live by. Not many people can say that.

    posted by Southern Belle      November 16th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

  • I’m a alumnus of the University of South Carolina and a member of a Fraternity.

    Kinda funny that you label people as anti-intellectual when the truth of the matter is that Greeks @ USC on average have a higher GPA than GDI’s…

    You really need to do more research before you go to press.

    You go after the Tea Party and their values…what’s so wrong with Liberty? What’s so wrong with the government playing by the rules they write? I know you’ve got a soft spot in your bleeding heart for all the downtrodden peoples of the world, but the fact remains that the Federal Government exists to protect Life, Liberty, and Property – not to ensure racial equality. The only equality that the government should consider is Equal Justice Under The Law. I’m not equal to a bum, I’m not equal to a billionaire (millionaire yes, billionaire not yet), I’m not equal to same label happy Yalie who goes of half cocked without considering these things called FACTS. We are all, however, equal under the law.

    I’m 28, own three companies, employ over 100 people (most of whom are minorities), I’ve made considerable donations of both time and money to nonprofit organizations whose only goal is to keep kids in school, yet you have the audacity to try and say I’m part of the problem.

    You can keep your soft spot and continue doing nothing.

    I’ll continue employing the minorities you think I hate, donating to charity (because I can & taxes are a bitch), and improving the lives of perfect strangers through my faith, hope, and charity.

    Maybe once you get your head out of your ass, get off your elitist Feminist Ivy League pedestal, get a job and start paying taxes you’ll realize your liberal rhetoric is worthless.

    Here’s a hypothetical, if you’re a feminist and we’re on a date are you picking up the tab? Didn’t think so…

    C U Next Tuesday…

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 16th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

  • To be a member of a “minority” is different than being a member of a group that has been “marginalized.” Rich people are a minority, as are super septuagenarians and mammals that lay eggs. Margaret’s usage is correct, as is her larger point: jokes made at the expense of historically, legally, and brutally marginalized groups are not funny, they are sick.

    It’s nice for you that you are friends with people who come from ethnic minorities. Be sure to clarify that whenever you talk about how members of ethnic minorities aren’t marginalized. It really lends you credibility.

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

  • I don’t know why you brought this up at all. Maybe because you are trying to bask in the attention of writing a poorly worded and weakly reasoned criticism.

    posted by I am a thespian, not a lesbian      November 16th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

  • Well played lady. I could not have written it better myself.

    posted by Perlis and pearls      November 16th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

  • TFM is just a way to be humorous and a way for us to laugh at the stereotypes everyone perceives us to have. Meet an actual fraternity man and sorority woman, and then make your opinions. They may be offensive, but we have a sense of humor to laugh at it and move on. It’s the internet, really.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

  • The First Amendment. TFM

    posted by Beaux      November 16th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

  • Tatiana did not write an open letter to “common ignorant stupid southern folk.” She wrote an excoriating analysis of a website’s culture and the value that underwrite it.

    I get that you feel attacked. But I wish you had reacted to this column with the same textual specificity, patience, and intelligence with which Tatiana expressed her opinion of TFM, not hysterical fictionalizations.

    posted by Freddie and Johnny      November 16th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

  • The last paragraph: “I’m not scared.”

    Why on earth would you be. Your article was very well written, and chronicles your hatred of this site, and what people TRY to represent.

    This site is merely an extreme exaggeration and as the posters above have revealed, if you don’t see the humor why would you go there?

    I can go to a KKK blog and realize that there are still legitimate racists out there, but I don’t. You’ve essentially committed this fallacy, I assuming that there are over 30+ people on that site who own private jets (when speaking of their daddy’s planes, etc). It just simply isn’t true.

    posted by Paul      November 16th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

  • What are the “merits of academia?” I’ve sat in classes for three years (30 courses) and the only new information that I have gleaned came from three accounting courses that I have taken. I knew everything in my basics (English, PoliSci, etc.) because my parents have always included me in their discussions of politics and other current issues, allowed me to travel and experience different cultures, and always be aware of the world around me. I already knew many of the finance knowledge that “academia” was supposed to teach me from being involved in family financial matters.

    While I do come from a privileged background, my grandparents do not. My grandmother and grandfather grew up during The Great Depression and had to pay their way through school because their parents could not afford college. After graduation with a petroleum engineering degree my grandfather became wealthy with oil exploration and production in Texas. He has donated over $50 million to “academia.” The idea that those that post on TFM and their families are not “at all interested in the merits of academia” is a generalization that assumes that TFM posters are stupid. We are not stupid. While some may not have the greatest interest in our classes many of us posses knowledge that cannot be found in “academia.” Sorry not all of us are interested in studying liberal arts and are not creative artistically.

    Also, my sister was in a sorority and a 3.9x GPA while majoring in a liberal art. While she was very successful in “academia” she has been unable to use her degree to be successful in the real world. Just because you do well in school does not mean that you will do well in the real world. Unless you plan to never enter the real world and just continue to study in your sheltered and protected area of “academia.”

    Your assumptions and judging of us who do not share the same values as those of you in “academia” is just as egregious as TFM posters generalizing people like you. TFM

    posted by Southern Beau      November 16th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

  • Noble Leslie DeVotie:

    “dominating some self-righteous hippie on her own blog, TFM.”

    ?

    You should write romance novels, for really sad men.

    posted by Casey Beckley      November 16th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

  • Ms Vanderford, unless you are GDI KING, or attend a school that is not in the SEC, I suggest you keep your lengthy opinions of his idiocy to yourself.

    posted by A Sphincter      November 16th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

  • I go to an ACC school yet i agree with every point that Scarlett made. SEC is not a conference of dumb schools (except UGA) haha just kidding.

    posted by taylor      November 16th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

  • Offensive to whom may I ask? This website is not offensive to everyone or it wouldn’t be read. I am a successful, professional, working woman who is a active alum of her sorority. I don’t take offense to the remarks made on TFM because (do I have to reiterate this?) this website isn’t to be taken so seriously. It’s all in jest, and while yes some of the remarks can be a bit off color, someone does find them humorous. Maybe not you, and maybe not I at times, but that is the beauty of living in this country, free speech! I think there is this misconception that because TFM is being read and has avid followers, that all sorority ladies allow themselves to be treated like dirt and all fraternity men are self-serving jerks. It’s just not so!
    I implore you “Yale” to come visit this great place called the south. You will find intelligent, caring, and hard working people who respect each other on a day to day basis. Oh, and we have a sense of humor and tend to not take ourselves too seriously at times. It’s refreshing!

    posted by Emeralds and Pearls      November 16th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

  • Agreed

    posted by Srat      November 16th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

  • If it is offensive to you why visit the site? It is all contained within one website, with the exception of the people who follow the site on Facebook or Twitter, it will then pop up in their feeds occasionally. I don’t visit websites that I find to be offensive to me, why would you? If this isn’t your type humor then don’t participate in it. The audience of TFM.com are Greek students that find the posts submitted by fellow Greeks to be funny. If it is so offensive, then why does the GDI community continue to visit the website? I have talked to several GDI’s that find the website to be pretty hilarious, because they understand that the majority of the posts are satirical. Something that you “Yalies” cannot grasp apparently.

    posted by Matthew      November 16th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

  • **by assuming that there are over 30+ people on that site who own private jets.

    posted by Paul      November 16th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

  • While TFM’s support for the troops is no doubt sincere, and laudable, I do not think this one virtue redeems the larger culture of the site. It is an online community in which it is normal to crack jokes where the punchline is that all women are sluts who want it, in which “I don’t think that is funny” is met with the riposte “you are a crazy bitch who has no sense of humor.”

    The site is funny. And I know what you mean, about it being satire. But under humor lies truth.

    posted by A Sphincter      November 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

  • Did you even read Tatiana’s article?

    posted by Incredulous      November 16th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

  • Our fraternity chapter of less than 60 members just raised 10,770 pounds of food last week for the National Food Bank.
    At the beginning of next month, on Reading Day, our chapter will be teaming up with Double Tree Hotels, news media, and city officials to host a city wide event to raise far beyond what we alone as a chapter did for the National Food Bank. TFM.

    Besides that post being to long for TFM, it’s nice, but just not funny. Which what the site is there for.

    posted by Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

  • This article offends me more than anything I have ever read on TFM has. I am a liberal, sorority woman attending a college in the South; your article seems to me to say that women like me do not exist. I have a very specific plan for after graduation, similar to many students all around the world, my plans include not only having a career helping people but also include being a wife and mother. TFM is a joke and is funny because the things posted are so ridiculous, it is sad that you have taken yourself too seriously and have become a joke.

    posted by pearls&fratshirts      November 16th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

  • Perfect.

    posted by David Fratterman      November 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  • As a conversationalist, you leave much to be desired.

    posted by Emily Post      November 16th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

  • “doesn’t make it not”, yale? ………… again, yale? If it is indeed offensive, please safe yourself the heartache and refrain from going to the site. I can’t understand why so many people spend so much time subjecting themselve to websites / ideals / humor they can’t deal with. I realize it’s incredibly hard to not type http://www.totalfratmove.com every morning, but if reading the content is going to make you cry, fight the urge.

    posted by Thurston Howell III      November 16th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

  • Reading your comments, you should take a look in the mirror and tell yourself that you are a hypocrite. Stop taking TFM.com so serious because Greeks don’t. We find it HUMOROUS! We are making fun of our own stereotypes and I believe that is called satire. And how dare you demean the women who stay at home. We are NOT second class citizens. Meet any southern gentleman and see how he treats his mother, grandmothers, sisters, daughters, and nieces. I have a boyfriend from a southern family and in a fraternity who treats me with respect. I make it my own choice to choose what I want to do with my future. If I want to be a homemaker and make sandwiches for my husband, let me do it. I have a 3.9 GPA from Vandy in Biology so don’t you dare imply that my sisters and I are in any way stupid. Greeks have some of the highest GPAs. Saying otherwise is close-minded and sexist. Sorority women take pride in who we are and we are proud to EXCEL in everything that we do, whether it is school or to make our men happy. We are honored. Please remember Sherman, take the TFMs and TSMs with a grain of salt. Clearly you have never experienced Greek Life yourself, or you would understand this is all in fun. I’m so sick of this bashing.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

  • The ability to post anonymously is why this website thrives. People wouldn’t post if they had to attach their names to the posts, because people like yourself would take these post for more than what they really are… they are posted to make people laugh, nothing more. Greeks that visit the site regularly understand that majority of posts are stories, often blown out of proportion from what they really were, or jokes. People who post are trying to get as many likes as possible, so they often try to line their posts up with many of the hard fratting stereotypes that are created on the website. We visit the site to laugh and post to make others laugh; the same reason you would visit CollegeHumor.com, TFLN, or FML.

    posted by Matthew      November 16th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

  • Obviously. He just hit on the other side of the argument. We have humor you find offensive and you have humor we find offensive. Did you read the article?

    posted by Beaux      November 16th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

  • Ivy league schools and the north in general is a bunch of liberal yankees who start crying and complaining when anything is slightly offensive to them. If it offends you then don’t read it. Harvard, Yale, Brown etc… you keep thinking of ways to “go green” and ways to save the planet, we’ll stick to driving our gas guzzling trucks, drinking bourbon on Saturdays, and watching real college football

    posted by Hank Jr.      November 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

  • And because we are are part of well-known organizations, it is our fault that people like yourselves continue to single us out. Is that correct? I can name hundreds of GDIs that flaunt themselves and are “sluts” and that is ok, right? Of course not, because you and your friends ignore the fact that your own women do the exact same thing. Need I say HYPOCRITE?

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

  • Hey General Sherman check this out:

    1. Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

    2. 76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity. 40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men. 71% of those listed in “Who’s Who in America” belong to a fraternity.

    3. Of the nation’s 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men

    4. A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sorority graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

    5. Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

    Source: http://www.uwgreek.com/frat/home.html

    Yes you said that past success doesn’t guarantee future success but nothing really can. So the best way to estimate is based on past success. Think about it. Would a NFL team tell someone like Peyton Manning, “Hey we know you did really, really well last year and hold a record 4 MVP awards but because that is no indicator of future success we’re gonna cut you to make some cap room.” NO. Of course not, that franchise would be absolutely insane and undoubtedly would lose a ton of money. Basically you’re then saying there’s nothing to learn from the past.

    And for those of you quipping about academics and intelligence I’ll share this. I go to the University of Tennessee. When I took the ACT I got a 35 overall the second time I took it. By the way first time I took it I got a 22… when I was in 7th grade (Duke TiP program). And that 35 is as good as or better than MOST of the students at Yale.

    posted by zax11029      November 16th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

  • Thank you sister. It’s nice to know that southern women actually have some self respect! What a shocker. :) Thank god we have enough class and intelligence to stand up to ourselves when these northerners from Yale imply that we are dumb.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

  • a GDI who claims to have profound intellectual capabilities stemming from Yale, yet cannot even understand satire….Chaucer would be disappointed

    posted by Fratosphere      November 16th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

  • Agreed. There are plenty of ideas and views and groups of people I do not agree with. How do I keep from getting pissed off enough to write an article like this? Simply by not looking at their websites. Even if I do check out a website I do not agree with, I understand that not everyone has the same views as me and they have the right to post whatever they want. Besides, for the most part these are not even the views of the fraternity men and sorority women around the country. It is just a joke, which I find hilarious. If you do not think it is funny then do not read it.

    posted by Southern Gentleman      November 16th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

  • Remember it was the non-greek community who labeled us with all of these stereotypes on TFM. We got tired of fighting them because they wouldn’t go away so we said to ourselves, “Forget it, let’s stop taking this seriously, play up the stereotypes because obviously we can’t beat them, and laugh about it.” So if you want to blame people for TFM everyone is to blame not just Greeks.

    posted by zax11029      November 16th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

  • Im going to go ahead and agree with pearls and fratshirts…..take a joke. I would put money down that the author is writing out of spite. Also as a liberal southern man and university student I resent the fact that this woman claims that people outside of institutions such as Yale dont value knowledge. Just because others choose to lead a different lifestyle than the author doesn’t make them anti-intelectual. She is most likely a bendzwaggon liberal and is just as closed minded as the people she accuses of being ignorant. It is a real pitty that such a smart and articulate person can be so ignorant.

    posted by Liam      November 16th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

  • Casey Beckley:–it seems you fall under the same category as Tatiana: simply cannot deal with satire or humor. I presume that by quoting Noble you wish to insult them, since it is well known that criticism is much easier than proving a point yourself. While attempting to insult Noble’s intelligence you effectively insulted your own seeing as a 4th grade comeback was your only reaction. However, romance novels could indeed be written about the ten or even hundreds of millions of dollars that Greek organizations have raised for various philanthropies.

    Let me ask you, have you logged over 300 hours of community service at an indigent medical clinic as I have? I didn’t think so…

    Seems like Beckley never got a bid.

    …..note to Beckley: that was sarcasm, you needn’t reply with “you should write for the NY Times” or something of the sort.

    posted by Fratosphere      November 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

  • Gen. Sherman,

    I, literally, must laugh at your post. It seems you are absolutely infuriated with TFM. It’s a joke, get the corncob out of your ass. That’s not a southern remark either seeing as corn grows out in Iowa–(See? No confederate connection there) As for accusing everyone on TFM for not becoming rich, successful, or important….let me point out my record:

    Rich—well, my dad made money in the software business and my mom is an interior designer. Yes, THEY are rich. Am I? I guess, if I’ll inherit whatever they have put away, but chances are their money will be going to our CHURCH. For now I’m $90,000 in debt as a SECOND YEAR MEDICAL STUDENT (wait…aren’t I supposed to be unintelligent since I’m in a southern fraternity??)

    Going to be rich–I’m currently on the path of an Orthopedic residency, which would pay extremely well, but I still may switch routes. Let’s say I stick with orthopedics and a low end salary of $300,000….I consider that comfortable, not rich. So that’s in the eye of the beholder

    Important–I will be a physician in a few more years. I don’t think you would accuse your doctors of not being important…now would you?

    Important (again)–I logged 300 hours of community service at an indigent medical clinic. I didn’t NEED those 300 hours, I served there because I WANTED to and I ENJOYED it. I find that as an important commitment and meaningful as well.

    Successful–if I am a well respected physician, I grow a beautiful family, I take care of them and my extended family, and I live a happy life and always remember to not take things too seriously (as you CLEARLY do not live by)…then I call that success.

    I have family lineage to Robert E Lee that I am damn proud of…why? Because at what is now known as Lee Chapel, African Americans were invited to come up to pray first, one woman walked up in front of all of the white men and women to kneel and pray. Not one person joined her due to racism…then Gen. Lee walked up the aisle and knelt beside her and prayed with her. THAT’s what I’m proud of.

    Does being proud of that family lineage make me an ass? Clearly not.

    Now for the sake of not embarrassing you further, I conclude this message and suggest you get off your throne of anger and criticism and stop making yourself look like an idiot…for example you like “women that are smarter then” you “are”…Ha ha, well it doesn’t take beyond a 4th grader to know that when you compare things, your intelligence and that of a lady for example, you use “than” and not “then”

    Good day

    posted by Kentucky bred      November 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

  • no, she didn’t ever directly say that it is a breeding ground for ignorance, but she said they all come from below the mason dixon line (the south) and that they are ignorant, so I’d say that’s saying the south is an ignorant place.

    posted by Rigsby      November 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

  • I myself am in a sorority. I go to the University of Florida. I wear pearls and drink beer from a monogrammed coozie. I have never dated outside of Greek lIfe let alone have many girlfriends outside of my own sorority. I would like to one day be a stay at home mom and take my husbands last name. I am the epitome of a sorority girl, yet I find TFM to be disgusting and disturbing. This website makes me question being involved in Greek life at all. It makes me wonder exactly who these people are that I spend all my time with. I am not proud to say i am an in a sorority after i saw this site. I think that what Tatiana wrote was brave and brilliant. in no way did she criticize greek life or the south. She merely addressed the issue of ignorance. Anyone who finds TFM to be humorous is both ignorant themselves and selfish. On another note, I am not a “sorostitute”, I am a Greek Woman. I do not “shack”, I have committed myself to one person for over two years. I do not “black out”, I do my best to do good throughout my community and stand true to my Sorority’s ideals of honor, service, hard work, humility and love for others.

    posted by emily      November 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

  • Oh please, quit pretending that idiotic site is satirical in any way. You’re trying to tell me those posts, most written by hungover “fratdaddies” are satire? There is no wit, no irony, no serious after-thought in those posts. Sure, there may on occasion be some insight or humor, but those occur rarely. The rest are the delusional half’-brained thoughts of a few “fratastic” men. And that is ALL they are.

    posted by Campbell      November 16th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

  • For the record, TFMs and TSMs are what we Greeks like to write to play up our stereotypes. I am a southern sorority girl who goes to Vanderbilt with a 3.9 in biology as well as being president of my sorority. I take college seriously as does every other Panhellenic woman I know. I find it funny that liberals like you take it so seriously when we write TSMs like that. I, for one, find them hilarious because they really aren’t true. Yes, there is a definite plus side to “landing a rich husband” or satisfying my boyfriend with a “blowj” as Miss Schlossberg puts it, but, like many of my fellow sorority sisters across the South, we take pride in excelling in school. If I choose to do any other socializing or recreational activities that involve drinking, sex, or anything you might deem inappropriate, I apologize ahead, but it really is none of your damn business. It’s really the fact that you are singling out sorority women. There are PLENTY of other women who go to college to find their rich husband and sleep around with every one. I’m just insulted that you all continue to pick on women in sororities. I apologize that we can have fun, join a sisterhood, get involved, and still make better grades than most. If I can meet my husband and be happy with him, it makes college even better. In other words, let us do whatever we please. I take pride in it all.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

  • Are you telling “W” if he doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t read it? Maybe you ought to apply the same logic to reading TFM.com. Oh, and tell your GDI friend who wrote the article to do the same.

    posted by Arkansas Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

  • Hence the anonymity of the site. Greeks would not be so quick to criticize their brothers and sisters if everyone knew who everyone else was. Most posters and readers dislike the condescending attitude that badmouths so many posts.

    posted by Arkansas Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

  • The simple facts are that Greeks are required to uphold a certain GPA and perform a certain amount of philanthropy hours per semester. The cumulative GPA’s of the Greek communities are almost always higher than the cumulative GPA’s of the unaffiliated communities. The total amount of philanthropy hours logged by the Greek communities are also almost always greater than the amount of philanthropy hours logged by the unaffiliated communities. While we may enjoy activities and aspire to futures that you disagree with you cannot collectively call the whole Greek community worthless.

    posted by nc sorority      November 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

  • This article is an “analysis of culture” and the only source is a humor website? You are showing off the quality of your GDI Northern education. No wonder the CEOs of 43 of the 50 largest corporations in America are fraternity men.

    This is more like a review of a comedy website from a highly biased perspective. It is comparable “historically” and “culturally” to a review of the new movie Due Date written by someone who only watched the trailer. A trailer, of course, that highlights the extreme but not what the movie is really about.

    posted by Arkansas Frat      November 16th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

  • It’s already been said a hundred times, but TFM is a college SATIRE website. How can you have missed the point so completely?

    One thing life has taught me in my first twenty-one years is that personality traits such as poise, self-awareness, a sense of humor, and an enlightened perspective are just as crucial to success and happiness as grades or SAT scores. Moreover, to rip on Greek life by using the same modes of generalization and accusation that you decry them for–that’s just hypocritical. You may go to Yale, you may be a talented student, and you almost certainly have an excellent work ethic. More power to you for that, those are all superb traits and they will undoubtedly serve you well in life.

    At the same time, you have to appreciate the irony here. For all of your complaints about generalizing, prejudice, and ignorance, that is exactly how you choose to retaliate! And just as you question the intelligence of the Greek demographic, you yourself are coming across as something of a buffoon– because you totally missed the point! Really? Really?

    I don’t mean to condescend in saying this, but one thing you may have to learn in life is that no matter how glossy your resume is, and no matter how many “laudes” you end up graduating with, when you go in for that job interview your prospective boss is still going to have to Want to hire you. And a lack of a sense of humor, a lack of awareness, a supercilious presumption that your political views are more enlightened than those of many of your countrymen, none of these are exactly attractive traits.

    In Greek life, and in the culture and world view it embodies, we are constantly looking to grow, and to become more well-rounded people. Yeah, we laugh at our own stereotype that “it’s not the classes you take but the handshakes you make” but the reality is, certain things in life cannot be learned in the classroom. And that’s where Greek life serves a purpose– it seeks to give its member a fuller and more enriching education than their tuition fees could ever alone pay for.

    I’m not a doctor, but I’d advise you to chill out, spend some time self-reflecting, and maybe even pour yourself a drink.

    posted by Jacob A.B. Presley      November 16th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

  • This an agree to disagree moment. As anyone who reads TFM knows, the North cannot be reasoned with.

    posted by Diamond      November 16th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

  • Although operating under the guise of ‘humour,’ you who represent Total Frat Move have presented a particular understanding of fraternity and sorority life to the rest of the world. Perhaps it is satire, but it is nonetheless bigoted and narrow-minded and you’ve intentionally portrayed yourselves in this way. You have created it. What may be irony or stereotyping to you reads as offensive and ignorant to others. It is odd that you are all so defensive and surprised at a critique of this American cultural trend and a “generalization” that you have forced upon yourselves. Particularly when you post on a forum available for public consumption, indicating this isn’t merely an ‘in joke’. Tatiana is not being closeminded or hypocritical, she is making a commentary based on posts she has seen and her interpretations are spot-on. How else can we read: “Slammed a townie last night. I figured she was too poor to afford Plan B so I lied about my name and disappeared like Houdini when she passed out. TFM.” It’s pathetic.

    posted by Emma      November 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

  • Jessica Wilson for the win.

    For the record, I take pride in being a fraternity. I take pride in the legacy that my ancestor’s have left for me. I laugh at the stereotypes people like Ms. Schlossberg put on me, because the fact of the matter is that a stereotype means nothing. I am in my second year of college and have a job ready for me after graduation. I am a campus leader and an excellent student. Being in a fraternity gives me access to close friends and great business contacts. It connects me to a rich past and supplies me with important connections for the future. 25% of Fortune 500 CEOs were in fraternities. All but 2 Presidents since 1825 have been in fraternities. 76% of current U.S. Senators & Congressmen were in fraternities. People within the Greek community have taken the first step on the road to success.

    So throw around hateful remarks like our “back wards way of thinking,” or “men (that feels like an overly respect ful term for them),” or “stupid and academ­ically unsuccessful.” I will laugh my way all the way to the top.

    posted by Southern FratStar      November 16th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

  • I live and go to school north of the imaginary mason-dixon line and would live to make a observation. I have a twin and a best friend who go to school south of this line and BOTH are in fraternities at very elite schools. I myself am in a sorority up north and can say that the southern gentlemen that I have visited at both campuses noted above are just that…southern gentlemen.

    I go to the store…they carry my bags
    I go to leave campus….they pack my car
    I misplace my jacket….they help me find it and offer one of theirs in the interim
    I get to a doorway…they HOLD THE DOOR
    I enter a party…and am escorted to a bar where I have a choice of drinks that arrive in ACTUAL GLASSES

    The list goes on and on. It is so extensive in fact, that upon every return from my visits, I end up missing the South more than ever before. In comparison, I have also visited Yale to visit some boarding school friends and can say this has been my experience:

    Not one person held the door for me or my friends and when I did it for someone, I though they were going to die of shock.
    Everyone runs around as if the world is about to run out of oxygen and they have to be the one with the last gasp.
    The only drink I was offered was a warm keystone light.
    Again, I misplace my jacket and everyone just says “oh well”

    As a “northerner”, I am willing to admit that we sometimes act elitist, so much so that it is offensive. Maybe you Yalies should stop trying to save the world and relax on a porch with your friends chatting over a nice mint julep. In my opinion you Ivy kids could learn a thing a two from the boys and girls you mock in the article. I would rather live/hang out with/ go to class with/ exist with them any day over your “we are holier than thou selves”

    Take a good look in the mirror Yale students. Can you honestly say that you have NEVER thought of yourselves five times the person because you go to an Ivy? You are just as elitist as these TFM kids, just in a different way. Try doing something truly satirical and making your own site…TOTAL IVY MOVE…I’m sure over time it would be JUST as offensive.

    posted by Pansy and Pearl      November 16th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

  • How ironic. An elitist in Ivy League academe cannot discern satire from seriousness. I would advise putting down those Vonnegut and Heller novels because you won’t understand them. I currently attend a southern state school, in the SEC (TFM), and am in a Fraternity. I also have above a 3.5 GPA and am in the Honors Program. I would say, with the exception of 5-6 individuals in my Organization, everyone is very involved on campus and values academic prowess above all other aspects of college-life (yes, there are other aspects to college life besides grades). I had the option of going to an Ivy League school (actually, two of them), and chose the state school instead, because it was much more financially viable. That being said, I’m not even one of the smartest kids in my Fraternity (Fraternity, NOT FRAT). Most of them are on track to go to Medical or Law school or any of the various Post-Graduate programs provided in the LOVELY SOUTH (or wherever).

    If you’d like to assert that everyone south of the “mason-dixon line” is intellectually-depraved, based on the glorified-tweets on a blatantly satirical website, then you are both shockingly ignorant and hilariously obtuse. Reread any of the posts you cited, and ask yourself if it’s more likely that 100% of the authors are flagrant racists, or if the authors are a mix of Greeks and GDI’s alike, comically advancing the already steadfast stereotypes of the “Animal House” Greek Life scene.

    posted by Barack BRObama      November 16th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

  • General Sherman couldn’t touch our culture, and this article and its comments are making that painfully obvious. The author of this article is completely ignorant of high-class southern culture.

    No one actually refers to themselves or anyone else as a “fratdaddy,” “sorostitute,” “slampiece,” or “fratslam.” Only an truly ignorant sorority girl would tell you that she is in college to get her “MRS degree.” I, like most other fraternity men in the South, want a woman who wants to achieve, but does want to disturb the core values of family and society, who understands that the role in society of men and women are very different but vital to its structure. An “egalitarian relationship” is made to include a man who does not understand and cannot handle the God-given burden to be a leader in his own household. He is insecure within himself. Women are meant to be nurturers, and they are valued by much more than “their body.” Any female can have sex and end up with a kid, but it takes a nurturer to raise a family that can be productive in society. This is painfully evident in the North, where poverty, crime, and broken households have destroyed its family framework. Anything that can maintain this framework, as Greek life does, is for the benefit of society. Come visit a Southern fraternity. The members of our house stand when a lady enters the room. We treat the sororities with the utmost respect, and the few idiots who disrespect women are frowned upon and liable to be removed from the fraternity.

    Racist? My chapter of 150 active members has 2 African-Americans and 1 Indian-American. Every African-American freshman that went through Rush in September received a bid for a fraternity. Minorities are not well-represented, but we aren’t racist. Racial slurs are an unfortunate part of TFM, but most in real life are a backlash at a society that frowns on the South and its tradition, which does include, sadly, bigotry, hatred, and racism. Please understand that there is so much more to the pre-Civl War South than slavery and racism. It was, and still in many ways is, a complex and complete societal system.

    As for rich, most of us, in fact, are. My fraternity house is worth $4.5M, all donated by alumni. I, personally, am not as rich. I am pursuing a broadcasting major with a finance minor and I hope to get into media and society after college. Thankfully, the general counsel and the sports information director at my university are both fraternity brothers, and as a junior I have inside connections for internships after I graduate. I am praying that my hard work will pay off and someday I will have enough money to support a family and achieve more in my life that throwing a big party.

    One last point. Radical Reconstruction of the 1860s-1880s forever alienated the South from the culture of the North. We have nothing else to identify with other than our pre-Civil War roots, when we had money and tradition. Reconstruction broke us and embarrassed us. If you’ve ever heard the phrase, “The South will rise again,” it has a negative connotation but most don’t understand it, including Confederates and modern day racists. Jefferson Davis made that quote in 1865 in reference to the culture, “burnt to the ground” as you said. What else to you expect from us?

    posted by 247frat      November 16th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

  • What is the DKE incident, you rather poorly explained it. Also, there is nothing wrong with having a rich family bloodline. Connections, money, and looks are never a bad thing. Instead they allow an individual to get that much farther in life.

    posted by Southern Fratter      November 16th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

  • I wonder why she decided not to mention the fact that the troops are very heavily supported throughout the website?

    posted by no no no      November 16th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

  • you need to get over your self. im sorry that TFM isnt Shakespearian satire, worded in some romantic fashion. its called fucking around. maybe you dirty libs need to realize that its ok for some one to have a different sense of humor than you. ridiculing a group of people for having a different sense of humor is just the same as doing so for skin color, economic status or region of birth. im sorry you dont find it funny. find a different site, but i for one, find it funny, and im paying for everything, including college, on my own.

    posted by Adam Fratdell      November 16th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

  • I got an 18 when I was in the 6th grade through the Duke TIP program! I got a 34 my senior year of high school, and coupled with a 4.0 GPA, I earned a full-ride scholarship to the University of Arkansas. I was accepted into William & Mary, Harvard, Arkansas, and Southern Methodist (SMU). I chose Arkansas, not for its strong Greek life specifically, but for financial reasons.

    posted by 247frat      November 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

  • If this was directed towards me, while my family choose a northern school, I myself go to Alabama. Nothing beats the SEC and I would never consider moving back up north, Ill let the men who handle my investments and my vacation home stay up there.

    posted by Montgomery Scott Elliott Davis IV      November 16th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

  • I’m in a sorority at one of these schools and I will say that no one takes TFM seriously. Yes, we love to read them and laugh at them and share them with each other but if you think we all take TFM seriously, you obviously need to do some better reporting (as evidenced by your wonderful explanation of a DKE incident as well). It’s a site to mock the stereotypes we convey of ourselves, no one is that bad or else there wouldn’t be any fraternities (some of those hazing stories could have nationals there in a heartbeat). Sorry Miss Schlossberg but you obviously didn’t do your research before this.

    posted by "Sororstitute"      November 16th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

  • I’m just very curious to know why you think it’s so great and cool that “Sher man marched up your ass, burnt your house to the ground and killed all your sons.”

    posted by GRITS (girls raised in the south)      November 16th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

  • Although I do not support any of the sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted views expressed on totalfratmove.com, I would nonetheless encourage you to look past the posts on totalfratmove.com to see what the greater problem is. Southern white men are doing something that the intellectual world forbids them from doing: being proud of their heritage and their culture. Is it worse that the intellectual world forbids southern white males from being proud of every single aspect of their own heritage and culture, or that some southern white males have embraced bigoted aspects of their heritage and culture? Is the latter a product of the former?

    An inflammatory article like this only furthers the divide between southern white males and the intellectual world. To bridge this divide, the intellectual community must halt its attack on southern white males, and those who wish to change the bigoted views of southern white males must form relationships with these men and educate them on why it is wrong to have such bigoted views. I challenge you, Tatiana, to do this.

    posted by North Carolina      November 16th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

  • The largest marginalization of minorities in modern American society occurs as a result of the failed welfare state and the institutionalized racism of affirmative action. While racism in the more traditional extent continues to occur it tends to be in a more tongue and cheek manner (see Comedy Central or local comic club). I personally find this humor hilarious, however I find the welfare state to be a sad remnant of post Civil Rights racists attempting to win votes.

    posted by Publius      November 16th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

  • I myself go to a southern school with a large percent of Greeks and I just want to say thank you for posting this.

    posted by jort86      November 16th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

  • If you “don’t mean to generalize”, THEN DON’T. If you took the time to pay attention to the clearly marked locations under the posts and looked without bias (which you are clearly incapable of doing), you would find that many of the posts on this website are from, you guessed it, the north. In fact, on the current first page, seven of the twenty are from above the “Mason-Dixon line” and many more are prevalent throughout the website. If you’re so offended by these clearly satirically-inclined posts, stay off the website and for that matter, inform yourself. Your ignorance causes more concern for me than this website. Not everyone living in the south is a racist, sexist biggot, rather, the vast majority are just the opposite. For you to assert that this website is of a predominantly southern influence is offensive to say the least. Your clear arrogance for your “Ivy league” school (“we Yalies live in an environment where it is cool to be smart, to do well on your own merit, to have a sense of his tory, to help poor people”) is what I find arrogant and horrifying. Step off your high horse, your assertions are poorly-informed and ignorant. You have no right to make these claims about my home.

    I am a woman from a southern school, without a greek system no less. I have found, as stated in above comments, the men of southern schools, particularly men in fraternities, to be exactly gentlemen and NEVER less. In fact, I would count myself lucky to some day end up with a husband in a fraternity. They are among the most respectful, polite, and kind men I have ever met. Your generalizations to all southern schools and all southern men in fraternities are biased and flat-out wrong, they give the opportunity for a reader who might have no experience in the south to make their own generalizations.

    I came into your article with an open mind about what I would find and in fact, hoped to read an interesting, maybe even humorous take on this website. While you are certainly a talented writer, you have, whether you choose to admit it or not, generalized this website to a purely southern base. All I’ve gleaned from this article is some obvious bias. I think an appropriate conclusion might be a few TFMs:

    “Encouraging the women in the fight against, Remembering the women who put up a valiant fight, and Honoring the women who conquered Breast Cancer during the month of October. TFM”
    “God Bless America. Always Remember 9/11. TFM.”
    “Chivalry is not dead. TFM”
    (certainly ALL signals of an “all-but-impending tailspin towards doom”)

    posted by yurman      November 16th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

  • Glad you’re paying for college, looks like you’re learning a lot, judging by your punctuation and grammar. And I was simply pointing out to the fellow above me, who was accusing the author of not understanding satire, that TFM is not an example of satire. I don’t give a fuck what kind of humor is, but I know what kind it’s not. And dirty libs? Really? I’m actually fairly conservative, but since I have an open mind and a different opinion from yours, I MUST be a dirty lib. Right.
    Carry on, asshole.

    posted by Campbell      November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

  • From a Good Ol Boy Southern Greek, God Bless Ma’am. I appreciate your words and could not have said this any better if I tried.

    posted by Sir      November 16th, 2010 at 7:19 pm

  • Therein lies the reason why the north has no amount of respect and honor for their women. Thank sweet Jesus for Southern Gentlemen. Bless your heart, A Sphincter, you really need to learn manners when speaking/writing to a lady. A woman has a right to speak her mind and she so clearly put GDI KING in his place. Thank you, Scarlett.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 16th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

  • You speak in semen-soaked fortune cookies. The result is blurry writing, and smelly thinking.

    Why have you not once quoted the article on which you have twice commented? Is there a fact in it that you actually wish to challenge?

    Are you aware that white men are in fact not victims of the United States, but in fact its benefactors and beneficiaries?

    I hope you write back.

    Chase

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

  • I would tell you how much time I volunteered, but I fear it would sound like we were on our first online date.

    Dude, lighten up! xxx

    posted by Casey Beckley      November 16th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

  • I agree with convolution too.

    posted by Meredith Meyer      November 16th, 2010 at 7:41 pm

  • I was thinking the exact same thing…

    posted by Broseph Stalin      November 16th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

  • I really did enjoy this article, but I have to agree with some of the comments. Alot of TFM is stuff that would be considered a “Total Frat Move” but rarely are these things actually done. I feel like alot of the time people are just trying to be funny and poke fun at Greek Life. Kudos for speaking your mind, but I have to agree with Pansy and Pearl. Any culture can be made fun of so much that it becomes offensive.

    posted by OKCNY      November 16th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

  • Are you aware that the ancient civilization is distinct from where you live? One brought slavery. The other brought date rape, and its punishment, apparently copious community service.

    posted by Meredith Meyer      November 16th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

  • i love you emily

    posted by chloe powell-blake      November 16th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

  • Did you read a different column? No one bashed “an entire set of organizations simply because of a public website.” Tatiana dessimated one website, not by meanly rhapsodizing its contributors, but by quoting them.

    As someone who has brothers and sisters, I do not take kindly to you taking their plural in vain.

    posted by chloe powell-blake      November 16th, 2010 at 8:04 pm

  • But, Ms. Rowling, will there be an eight book?

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 8:07 pm

  • total feminist move.

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm

  • Beaux, I am sorry that you and your brethren have been unfairly treated by South Park.

    Nothing is inherently funny. At all. Life, birth, death, obesity, saying the wrong thing, marrying someone whose parents dislike you. We make jokes, I think, to make us feel better about things that are not themselves happy.

    I am grateful that you acknowledge I have a hypothetical sense of humor. Denying that fact seems to be TFM sympathizers’ favorite riposte. I really am grateful for that.

    Both our worlds are legit. I have no idea what it is like to be in a fraternity. I haven’t any clue what its like to be male. But I know I don’t get the punchline when jokes are at women’s expense. If you can, and if you would, please explain to me what I am not seeing. What is going on on TFM that you like?

    Yours,
    Chase

    posted by Chase Olivarius-McAllister      November 16th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

  • Satire and the south are ruining the country. Good thing we have Yale to keep us in line. If you want an example of “you people” (ivy leaguers) doing the exact same thing check out the comments on abovethelaw.com. But I don’t scream, cry, or bemoan the fate of the legal profession, because I know that it is all in jest. And quite frankly, I’ll admit Yale has a better law school than my humble state school, while you should admit we who went to school in the south had a better time (and a better sense of humor).

    posted by OMG!      November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

  • “Gentleman” is a strong word.

    posted by Belle      November 16th, 2010 at 9:56 pm

  • Only people from the likes of Texas Tech take TFM seriously. Maybe University of Houston too. I am surprised you think the statements people make on the website are being serious.

    posted by Thuper Phratty      November 16th, 2010 at 9:59 pm

  • In summation: these fraternity members were shouting “No means yes! Yes means anal!”

    http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2010/10/15/yale_fraternity_pledges_chant_about_rape

    posted by Pearls and Class      November 16th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

  • I have not spoken about you. Neither did Tatiana in her article. Her problem, and mine, is with TFM, which probably has no official relationship to whatever group you are a member of. This is a feminist website, so there are few fans of the word “slut,” and very few regulars who think that word is descriptive. I hope you come back.

    posted by A Sphincter      November 16th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

  • WHERE EXACTLY DID TATIANA TALK ABOUT SOUTHERN PEOPLE????

    SHE NEVER DID

    STOP HYPERVENTILATING

    posted by lord of london      November 16th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

  • hmm…you make it seem like no Southerner has ever been an intellectual. What would you call Mark Twain, Robert Penn Warren, Flannery O’Connor, Truman Capote, Eudora Welty, Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner?

    All intellectuals.
    All Southerners.

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 16th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

  • don’t forget James Dickey, Tim Gautreaux, William Gay, Padgett Powell, Pat Conroy, Fannie Flagg, Randall Kenan, Ernest Gaines, John Grisham, Mary Hood, Lee Smith, Tom Robbins, Tom Wolfe, Wendell Berry, Cormac McCarthy, Ron Rash, Anne Rice, Edward P. Jones, Barbara Kingsolver, Margaret Maron,, R.B. Morris, Anne Tyler, Larry Brown, Allan Gurganus, Clyde Edgerton, Daniel Wallace, Kaye Gibbons, Nicholas Sparks, Winston Groom, Lewis Nordan, Richard Ford, Ferrol Sams, and Olympia Vernon

    all successful Southern authors…

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 16th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

  • sweet column.

    posted by lord of london      November 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

  • I think you raise a lot of interesting points. but the internet is so crazy. it makes people lose their heads. I am convinced that the people on TFM mean what they say. But can the people who post on TFM really know what their saying? They just don’t think it’s offensive to talk about women that way. They have a different view.

    posted by iphone mastery      November 16th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

  • This column was such a gust of fresh air, into an old old debate. I think the chastity of its anger is as impressive as its body count. really, a great read. thanks.

    posted by Hillary Dowd      November 16th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

  • Here are some more for you sweetheart. We poke fun at ourselves, I really would love to see a Total Ivy League Move site.

    Some GDI walked up to me at the bar and asked why I had my sunglasses around my neck at one in the morning. I told him because I drink til the fucking sun comes up. TFM

    Trading in my paddle that hazes pledges for my M16 that will be hazing in the middle east for the next 6 months. TFM

    Bobby Cox, the man and the legend. Providing countless date nights for greeks in Georgia. Thrown out of countless games. We will miss you. TFM

    Copy of Decision Points…Signed by the author. TFM
    Maybe if you weren’t so liberal and all about change you would laugh and enjoy these too.

    posted by Fratagonia      November 16th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

  • I’m confused as to why “men” and “women” are put in quotes. Are you implying that these men and women are not “men” and “women?” I’m not sure what that’s about. I’m pretty sure the posters on TFM are not cats and dogs… Perhaps you were thinking “gentlemen” and “ladies?”

    Also, I understand that the evidence, taken in and of itself, appears to demonstrate that the members of the website are not concerned with the merits of academia. However, surely someone who attends an institute of higher education can take these quotes into consideration in the proper context. That context is a group of men and women who happen to be in Greek organizations who are poking fun at themselves and others.

    I’m not saying that these comments don’t perpetuate misogyny or racism, but to go as far as to say that these people don’t care about their education is silly, to be frank. Especially when so many “frat daddies” and “sorostitutes” have come on to this very website claiming otherwise, myself included.

    Finally, there’s a difference between being an elitist and being prideful. The line is thin, and sometimes it gets crossed, but I hardly think it’s fair to label an entire region of the country as elitist.

    I encourage an open forum and these kinds of discussions are both amusing and meaningful. But please, if we’re going to have a discussion, lets try to not make absurd generalizations and think our posts through.

    posted by DWG      November 16th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

  • While I regret taking ten minutes out of my day to read your painfully generalizing article, I would like to point out some of the double standards that you and your clearly valuable Yale Journalism degree missed. You and your Southern counterparts both go to schools where the “best and brightest” get their Mom and Dad to pay for the entire thing. The only difference is while Southern men and women in Greek organizations sit around joking about their way of life and the way they are perceived, you sit around and take them seriously. Sorry to be blunt, but from where you are sitting and they are sitting your argument that a site like TotalFratMove.com is going to send a nation in to a tailspin has more holes than a sieve. As a Greek member that would be considered NF to most of the southern collegiate campuses, I find the site to be absolutely hilarious in their portrayal of Greek Life not only in the South, but all over the United States, even on your own campus.

    The funniest part is the touted “Biggest Frat Daddy of Them All” is George W. Bush. One of the more distinguished members of the Yale University alumni if I recall.

    I hope you all of a sudden find a sense of humor digging around in one of your feminist journalism novels.

    posted by Northern Fraternity Man      November 17th, 2010 at 12:21 am

  • Thank You, Ma’am.

    posted by J.A.W. IV      November 17th, 2010 at 12:25 am

  • My apologies. I was referring to your comment about the “truth” of said TFMs and TSMs. You are implying that there is some truth in what we write, which might be true, but I was also referring to the fact that it can be said about anyone, not just Greeks. It feels like you mean we, sorority women, might be resembling “slut” like behavior, but really, I can say that about a lot of other girls who are GDIs as well. Either way, it doesn’t matter. If society can’t laugh at the humor of that goes on in our daily lives, we really need to get out more. The site plays on our stereotypes that the media and people like you, who have never been Greek, view us. Why is it not fair for us to laugh at your expense and make fun of ourselves. Everyone laughs at themselves every now and then, not just Greeks. If you can’t take a joke, please don’t read the posts. I am proud of who I am and who I associate myself with. If I can laugh at the comments referring to me, it shouldn’t offend you, since it isn’t directed towards you. It’s hypocritical to think that we can all laugh at some politically incorrect things (which you probably do), but we can’t laugh at harmless comments about ourselves? That’s a bit unfair. I am confident enough to know not to take it seriously. Why aren’t you?

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 17th, 2010 at 1:03 am

  • Tatiana Schloss­berg,

    TFM is a website that you clearly see as a blemish on the American psyche. But, the Greek world created by southern fraternities is a community for those whose life style is painfully invisible. Being an affluent WASP male i might as well be the most ignored being in America in the eyes of special interests. People look at me with disdain because of my wealth, and whiteness.

    The wealth that I have inherited has been won by hard work and preserved through hard work. I use it as i see fit because I will soon enter the professional world where I am absorbed in preserving my family’s honor. Meaning I will throw money around like I just don’t care because I have the ability to and soon I will enter into a world where fiscal responsibility will allow for my children to indulge as I do now. That is the world of the frat. Only in your 20s is it appropriate to chase tail and get blitzed, throw up in the bushes and proceed to have drunken sex with a newly found friend.

    The culture of America for the past 20 has been based around the movements of rap and hip hop. A culture held virtually solely by blacks (I wont say African-Americans bc I am referred to as white. If you want your PC nonsense I will only accept being called Anglo-Saxon-Gallic- Norse-American, and then I’ll say African American). So culturally I am ignored, except for inside my own niche. A niche where we have entrenched morals and unbreakable pride. The black world. The hip-hop/rap world. Is based around none of what I believe in and that is where the “racism” comes from. The lack of morality and pride that is clearly seen in their music and their lifestyle.

    I doubt this will be posted on the website because you will probably seek to censor what we say, but I will probably too hungover to care tomorrow. Yes I am drunk… Its a free country. Tatiana, you may look on this with contempt, as a private schooled ivy leaguer should.

    You and I are probably as different people as ever, but if you truly expect to be seen as an intellectual then I would expect this to be posted so as to allow a rebuttal to your article. OR, you could stoop the ochlarchy you have slandered so much and prevent the opportunity for debate to ensue so as to keep your opinion (as this is mine) as the only opinion seen.

    I also do expect the managing editor to reply.

    Sincerely,

    Pat[Frat]riacian

    posted by Pat[Frat]riacian      November 17th, 2010 at 1:57 am

  • Maybe if she ventured out from behind her computer, she would get to know fraternity and sorority members and see that this site is truly just a joke. But, clearly the author is too closed-minded to do so, and would rather make one-sided allegations against a large and hardly uniform group of people.

    posted by TexasAXO      November 17th, 2010 at 2:45 am

  • Taken from another article on this site, by Andrea Levien: “I know that most of you don’t watch Fox News… ever. Its penchant for reporting factual inaccuracies is abhorrent to (almost) any Yale student.” This sounds suspiciously like something that would be posted on TFM (if you replace Fox with CNN), as it’s a pretty snobby statement, and basically says that anyone who watches Fox news is an idiot, and obviously could not be a truly Ivy-Leaguer. The real tragedy in this case is that Ms. Levien did not post this as a joke on a site meant for such things, she was being quite serious (and quite elitist).

    posted by Southern Belle      November 17th, 2010 at 3:08 am

  • You contradict yourself in the first line of your article:

    “Yes­ter­day, I dis­cov­ered totalfratmove.com. Today, I am an addict.”
    Clearly you were entertained by TFM. Surprise: TFM is meant to entertain! In the rest of your article, you base everything you say as if it were meant to be taken literally.

    posted by Fratistotle - KΣ      November 17th, 2010 at 3:17 am

  • As a prominent member of the “TFM culture” that this Yale student claims to despise so much, I would like to thank you and every other Tri Delta lady for acknowledging this difference in culture. Thank you and God bless.

    posted by Noble Leslie DeVotie      November 17th, 2010 at 9:44 am

  • Talk about women in what way?

    “If you like Southern girls: raise your glasses. If you don’t: raise your standards. TFM”

    posted by Noble Leslie DeVotie      November 17th, 2010 at 9:55 am

  • Amen! I am pursuing my journalism degree with a high GPA and am in a journalism honors program. I’m definitely not one of the smartest girls in my sorority – we, for the most part, tend to get higher GPAs than the GDIs on campus. I think Miss Schlossberg should read some of the comments on this and realize that the Greek community really isn’t like TFM, and rather the website satires our traditional ways. Also, she goes to Yale – an elitist Ivy League school with many wealthy families there as well. I’m sure that if TIM (Total Ivy Move) was a website, she would react in the same way many of us Southern Greeks react to TFM – with a laugh.

    posted by "Sororstitute"      November 17th, 2010 at 10:40 am

  • “…could hap­pen daily at a large state uni­ver­sity in the South (I don’t mean to gen­er­al­ize, but lit­er­ally every post on TFM comes from below the Mason-Dixon line…”

    (3rd paragraph)

    “The world has moved away from a time when white south­ern men held domin­ion over the rest of the coun­try”

    (7th paragraph)

    those were the only 2 instances where she actually used the word “South” in her article, although (I don’t mean to generalize) literally the rest of the article was angled that way. Her generalization is a touch off base though, as “literally” almost every single post on the site turns into a North vs South Great Debate, telling me (along with the state of origin) that atleast half of the posts on TFM come from the North (or WestCoast, Midwest, or Texas [ not wanting to start the "Texas isn't South" argument, but oops]). I think Tati was just showing which side she was on, in a much-longer-than-a-TFM-response kinda way.

    posted by Thurston Howell III      November 17th, 2010 at 11:04 am

  • From all of us down south, thank you for posting that, we all appreciate it.

    posted by W      November 17th, 2010 at 11:58 am

  • You sound like a 12 year old who believes everything they hear or see online. TFM is joke to us southern Greeks and yes there is a large part of it that is true and I think the pictures can attest to that. However loading comments on here that represent Southern Geek life as negative is a bold move your part. Sure that one guy had 1.7 GPA one semester, however this usually does come from stupidity, this is largely due to excessive partying (not all the time though, stupid people do exist.) I appreciate how proactive you are in believing in woman’s rights and I would consider myself a gentlemen by Pansy and Pearls description above certainly. I happen to like the fact that we party hard, have money, and have great connections. This makes our lives easier and if you prefer to work very hard for your lifestyle that’s perfectly acceptable to me and I respect that, I happen to have a few things in my life that I have worked very hard to achieve as well and that has taught me the value of hard work. While at the same time learning the value of hard work I’ve learned how luxurious it is to not have to do some of that work. At the end of the day we are who we chose to be and that is the way of America, people such as myself just chose to learn quickly and make it easier on ourselves (men and women alike.)

    posted by Southern Chi      November 17th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

  • In this whole article you are being nothing but a hypocrite, and you clearly do not fully understand the scope and value of Greek life. You criticize TFM for being racist and passing judgements on those that are different from the people who post ( members of the Greek community) but here aren’t you doing the same thing. Simply putting them down and criticizing them for their way of thinking and background.
    First of all not all members of the Greek community come from a wealthy family background, and do not simply have only their ‘connections going for them.’ Connections are an important part I’ll admit but every student attends a college or university in order to gain said connections and help them get started in the world. Secondly as a member of Greek life myself I know for a fact that participants are not stupid as you seem to claim, and in fact many organizations hold their members at a high standard and grade point averages to maintain. As a matter of fact on most college campuses Fraternities and Sororities maintain the highest grade averages out of the other students, also those who participate in Greek life are more likely to make it through all four years of college, non-members do not have the support systems offered by these organizations.
    Being of old money and blue blood is a wonderful thing and I am proud to rep it to the fullest extent. And I will proudly say that i Come form below the Mason Dixion line where the south’s values still run true. The values of chivilary and pride, of respect for women and your elders. Where you are more likely to see a friendly face and a helping hand than any where else. Where each and every person worked for what they got and didn’t bribe there way into a banking company, or threatened a law suit. Where respect is earned and reputations and family legacies are lived up to.
    Us sorostitutes do know our worth, and yes finding a rich husband in college is a lovely idea, one that most people have even the ones you considered to be more driven than use Greeks. Everyone knows that it is a nice little fantasy just some of us can actually achieve it. Look at your college campus and campuses across the nation and see who does the most proactive events and fundraisers. Who on campuses across America heads up philanthropy events and donate millions of dollars to non-profit organizations who help serve the community on a whole. I’ll answer it for you. GREEK LIFE!!

    so before you criticize our sense of humor and put down our value look at yourself and think about what good you’ve done. All you did was write an article criticizing someone different than yourself. Hypocrite.

    posted by GreekGirl      November 17th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

  • Oh I see,

    When somebody says something you don’t like you censor them.

    Censorship and Intellectualism hardly walk hand in hand

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 17th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  • I really wouldn’t get into a competition with students at Yale about how large of checks one can write. I doubt that will end well for the South.

    posted by Follow the Money      November 17th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

  • so true, love it.

    posted by diamonds forever      November 17th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

  • Unfairly.

    posted by Hillary Dowd      November 17th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

  • you talk about women like they are dirt.

    posted by iphone mastery      November 17th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

  • I’m in the picture on the top right.(ATO House)..TFM. Why does fratting hard piss off liberals so much. Sorry for partying.

    posted by ATBRO      November 17th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

  • Pornography is permissible, but that doesn’t make it not offensive. Anything could be offensive. Stop being such a liberal and wake up to the real world.

    posted by Yale-Hater      November 17th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

  • From one Panhellenic woman to another, I commend you. I was born and raised in the South, go to school in the South, and I feel lucky and fortunate to personally know how southern gentlemen are. I appreciate that Fraternity brothers always stand when a woman walks through the doors or leaves the table. Northerners should take note. I’m glad that not all northerners are closed minded like these “Yalies”, but then again, you are a sorority woman. Thank you for giving another side to this story.

    posted by Owls and Pearls      November 17th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

  • the only real difference between Schlossberg and the Fratstars is that the Fratstars admit to using their connections, while Ms. Schlossberg maintains she has gotten to where she is on her own merit…

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 17th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

  • Who do you think your kidding? Southern men oftentimes live up to highest ideals instilled in us by our fathers and forefathers of gentility and chivalric behavior. There has been no period of American history where woman have been more highly regarded for purity and class than in the romanticized south of old. Maybe you should take a lesson from those “crude and stupid southern folk” who exude more hospitality and class daily than you’ve even experienced. Thank you for your time.

    posted by Bobby Lee      November 17th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

  • Had any fraternity at my extremely traditional Southern university committed an atrocity comparable to the DKE incident of last month, the organization would have been dissolved within the week and the students placed on disciplinary probation of the strictest character. Based on this article, I’d recommend that the feminists of Yale take some remedial writing classes and look to their own fences.

    posted by The South      November 17th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

  • No

    posted by Tau      November 17th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

  • To all y’all “Yalies” in my reading audience, I am so sorry you view us with such prejudice. I would like to extend the offer right now to come and visit the south and see exactly what it is we take pride in. For example, our family values are held near and dear to us. While I have not read third party research on this subject, I can say that between northern and southern families, there is most likely a stronger family bond in the southern family. We dine together, do social activities together, and go to church together. These family structures strengthen our family bonds. Also we pride ourselves on our heritage. Just because the south has a history of racism and bigotry does not mean that all southern men and women are racist, bigots that try to undermine the civil rights movement. The heritage I am proud of is my father paying for his own college, graduating in 3.5 years with an electrical engineering degree then getting his masters at Cal. He worked his ass of for years to support my mother, brother and myself and we are very financially stable now due to his fiscal responsibility. If that’s not something to have pride in, I don’t know what is. And to address the sexism, it’s not sexism. I personally do not want my wife to work after we have children. I was raised with a stay at home mom and loved every minute of it. This is not an attack on women in the work place, more my personal views. I know kids whose mothers worked or were from divorced parents, and they were always getting into trouble and we were not raised well. And i repeat, please don’t take this as an attack against women because I for one love women. So much in fact, that I pay for their meals and drinks. I hold doors for them even if they are ten paces behind me. I value a woman much more than I value a man. Women are amazing. They bear the burden of giving life unto the world and still look damn good making cookies and hosting luncheons. The site totalfratmove.com is a group of greek college kids that like to joke about the same things that non greek members of the community joke about. If you think an unaffiliated male is not going to joke with his buddies about getting some dome, or taking home a gorgeous girl, then you are sorely mistaken. I’m sorry the site offends, but please don’t ridicule our way of life and place unfair judgements on our culture. Again, I would love to show you what a fun and historic place the south is. I go to school in Louisiana. Probably the state in the US with the largest prejudices against it. Y’all’s views of us stem from the movie “The Waterboy,” news coverage of looting and murdering post Katrina, and the amazing new show “Swamp People.” The common bond between these things is they are for entertainment values (don’t kid yourself if you think the news is not for entertainment). What you don’t see are the multi million dollar houses in up town New Orleans, or the people of “The Happiest State in the US” and you definitely do not see our greek community’s charity work to both local and national causes. It was a well written article, but poorly researched based solely on a site who’s comical values are lost on you.

    Your brother in the pursuit of equality and brotherhood,
    Ryan

    posted by LSU      November 17th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

  • I’d take a southern gentleman any day over an Ivy League Yalie. At least he’ll open doors for me, stand up when I do, and respect all the women in his and my family.

    posted by Owls and Pearls      November 17th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

  • I agree. If nationals actually took TFM seriously…all chapters would be disbanded. Clearly, our own headquarters think we are just having fun.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 17th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

  • Thank you so much for making this point. I go to a Southern school and am in a sorority, and I would not trade that for the world. I could have gone to Yale, but I chose not to, because I know that the South is where you find the best MEN, not boys. They know how to act right when they should. TFM is a website a lot like TFLN. It’s there to anonymously post comments that are funny, for entertainment. The only difference is that TFM is supposed to be strictly for Greek students. The Greek system is a community, and anyone outside of it just doesn’t get it. I don’t care if they are a GDI or whatever, but they seriously can’t understand unless they’ve been through it. So thank you for defending our boys. I wish more people understood as well as you do.

    posted by Diamonds and Pearls      November 17th, 2010 at 8:13 pm

  • Yes sir. In fact some of us like to think of ourselves as True Gentlemen

    posted by William C. "Billy" Levere      November 17th, 2010 at 8:24 pm

  • Woah there, Stalin. It’s comments like those that fuel the fire that Tatiana is stoking. Yes I am Jewish, and yes I am definitely in the minority in my fraternity. We are few and far between, but we are fraternity men none the less.

    I can’t believe that anyone on here was able to turn me against a fellow fraternity man, but your comment is seriously fucked up.

    It is people like you who give Fraternities and Greeks in general a bad name. NF

    posted by Fraternity Jew      November 17th, 2010 at 8:25 pm

  • I couldn’t even tell you how much I appreciate this response if I wanted to. I do a lot of traveling and I am always commended for my manners and respect for others. Thank you.

    posted by Southern Greek      November 17th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

  • To recap: Tatiana writes a column for a campus feminist magazine about how she’s appalled by TFM – by offhand misogyny and a total sense of social irresponsibility. The response by TFM’s users and defenders is to say that she’s crazy, she’s making it up, TFM is all satire, Tatiana can’t take a joke, and then in the comments to her article Tatiana’s called a ‘feminist black panther’ (whatever that means), a ‘self-righteous feminist hippie,’ and a “black jew.”

    So, obviously, something’s going on, and TFM isn’t all fun if, as soon as somebody (in a totally unrelated publication) says that she’s offended by TFM, the reaction is to call her a feminist black panther jew hippie liberal from the north who should mind her own damn business.

    Tatiana’s speaking for a lot of people – women especially – who’ve felt that fraternities have had a toxic effect on their college experience. Look, fraternities tend to be aggressive, tightly organized, well-funded, with access to alcohol, and disproportionate influence over campus life. And what do fraternities do with their influence? Orchestrate date rape (10% of campus date rapes occur in fraternity houses) and rally around brothers who are caught. If you’re a girl on campus, you can’t really avoid it: at some point in college one of your friends is going to get date raped in a frat house and then, lots of luck getting the frat brothers to take your side in it – or you play it the fraternities’ way, join a sorority, and then you’re easy pickings (‘a sorostitute’).

    Tatiana’s not saying shut down the fraternities (although there’s an argument for that). She’s saying, if you have great power, have a little fucking responsibility to go with it. There’s something obviously flawed about a culture that leads the galaxy in date rape, takes a smug kind of pride in everything about its traditions, and lashes out viciously at any criticism.

    Reading through this thread, there’s a few things that jump out – first of all, that most of the posts don’t even deal with Tatiana’s argument. They basically say she’s not allowed to criticize frats.

    These look to be the leading dumb reasons explaining why her criticism isn’t valid:

    TFM can’t be criticized because a) TFM is satire, b) fraternities organize community service and do lots of good things besides get drunk and flash money c) it’s just a fun site, so don’t take anything seriously, d) anybody criticizing TFM (especially a northerner) is elitist.

    To respond -

    a) Doing satire doesn’t mean nobody can criticize you. As ‘A Sphincter’ pointed out, “It’s an online community in which ‘I don’t think that is funny’ is met with the riposte ‘you are a crazy bitch who has no sense of humor.’” Satire doesn’t give you a free pass. Satire means you’re inviting criticism. If you actually get criticized, deal with it.

    b) All anybody sees of fraternities is an aggressive we’re in-you’re out campus presence; obviously that’s what TFM is all about. The fact that you also do community service doesn’t mean you get to be an asshole the rest of the time.

    c) Grow up. If you post on a public forum, people are going to read it, including people who don’t share your values. If you offend someone, you don’t get to be angry at her for being offended.

    d) Tatiana isn’t saying the south is elitist. She’s looking at quotes like, “Just drove through the poor section of town – it was out of my way but worth laughing at the unfortunates” and “Can’t we pay someone to do this?” and “My dad’s taxes are so high he gave me and my brother each another share in the company” and getting a little bit of an elitist vibe wafting in her directions.

    Look, you’re the ones inside the club – you made your own little elite. Now justify what’s elite about you. The Ivy League thing is about hard work and intellectual merit. Some of the posts on the thread are absolutely right that those aren’t the only possible values for a college student, but inheriting daddy’s hard-earned money and schmoozing your way through college aren’t exactly accomplishments. There’s a good kind of elitist where you develop abilities that other people don’t have and then there’s the kind where you’re a smug asshole who hasn’t done anything.

    @Jessica Wilson/Emeralds and Pearls: It was tough to read your posts. You’re both obviously very smart and eloquent. You’re working hard to defend a lifestyle where you (as sorority sisters) are routinely called a sorostitute and – if you objected to that – would be told that you can’t take a joke. If that’s the southern gentlemanliness you’re defending, it’s time to get some higher standards.

    (And just to say the obvious: ‘fratdaddy’ is a positive term, sorostitute is a slur. Lots and lots of TFM posts talk about men using and abusing women; none that I’ve seen are about women wielding power over men. Ladies, the joke’s on you.)

    With the north/south thing – that’s really not what Tatiana’s article is about. She noticed that most of the posts on TFM were from southern schools, but frat culture’s obviously incredibly powerful in the south and north (including at Yale, btw, which has about seven or eight frats and three sororities). When you realize what the article’s about, the whole how-dare-she-attack-our-traditions thing comes across a little weak.

    Look, you chose to be in a fraternity. This isn’t a condition you were born with; this is something you wanted to do. Fraternities have a bad reputation for date rape and misogyny; you knew that going in. By and large, fraternities have beaten the old rap that they’re racist – take some responsibility and beat the misogynist rap.

    TFM is obviously irresponsible and enjoys being responsible. That’s fine in itself, but if you use satire (or whatever) that shows you to be misogynist, don’t be surprised if you’re called out on it.

    posted by Sam      November 17th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

  • I’m from the south. You northern “Yalies” think you run the world, not us southern gentleman. This article reeks of cockiness and ignorance. Sorry we have a sense of humor. We might poke fun at the beautiful “sorostitutes” at our schools but we will be the first to die fighting for them. Take your unneccessary Yale education! I’ll take my SEC education and my self made connections and when I take the job applications in to consideration, I’ll make sure to never hire someone from Yale thanks to your horrible representation of the school.

    posted by Jefferson      November 17th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

  • i dont know what the point of your post is, but ok. good for you gdi.

    posted by cherry sperry      November 17th, 2010 at 9:50 pm

  • Great article. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    posted by Max      November 17th, 2010 at 9:51 pm

  • While I think the author of this article is making a good point, TFM is, for the most part, fraternity and sorority women making fun of themselves. One would be ignorant to think that those who post aren’t aware that they sound ridiculous. Some of the things posted, especially those that are racist, aren’t really funny, but they do relflect a very large subculture that exists.

    I am in a sorority (up north) and a lot of the behavior described as “TSMs” or “TFMs” actually do occur. I know fraternity brothers that treat sorority girls like dirt, and I know girls in my own chapter who are consistently dieting and truly believe they are better than others because they are not “GDI”s.

    However, I must also say that Greek life has made me a better person. I go to a competitive school, but in many aspects, being in a sorority has forced me to act more professionally. Yea, eating disorders are common and you always will meet frat guys that treat you like you’re stupid. I knew this getting into it, however. You have to take the good with the bad.

    posted by Lauren      November 17th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

  • Sam,

    Your response makes the argument for the fraternities instead of against them. If on a southern campus where 40-60% of the school population is Greek, only 10% of the sexual assaults that occur are in fraternity house’s then you are in fact proving that Greeks treat women with more respect than non-Greeks. If the roughly half of the student population that is not Greek is committing 90% of the rape then it goes to show that Greek men do in fact live their values.

    If you want to know why Greek organizations have “dis­pro­por­tion­ate influ­ence over cam­pus life” it is because we recruit leaders. That is what makes us elite. We are elite because Greeks are self-motivated, organized, driven leaders with developed social skills. Tatiania was criticized for calling us out for it not because she doesn’t have the right to criticize satire, but because she herself is clearly an elitist. You may claim that it is a different type of elitist, but as far as I am concerned if you think you are better than someone whether it is because your dad makes lots of money, or you go to a school where a 2400 on the SAT gets you on the waiting list you are still an asshole.

    Tatiana is receiving criticism because instead of accusing the site and it’s posters of taking a joke too far, or for poorly written low-brow satire she chose to take the site at face-value and treat it not like a piece of satire but as if the posters are being entirely serious. I look forward to her piece next week on the horrors of south park and family guy.

    The true judge of a man (or women) is not what they post on a website in jest, but rather the actions by which they live their life. If Tatiania is so convinced that the Greek men and women of this country live in a backwards world that promotes racism, misogyny, elitism, and hate then I encourage her to ask one of the men or women listed below that are Greeks elected into political office, because as she stated she has faith in our political system.

    Governors
    Sam Brownback (R-KS/Alpha Gamma Rho)
    Dennis Daugaard (R-SD/Lambda Chi Alpha)
    Nathan Deal (R-GA/Alpha Tau Omega)
    Mary Fallin (R-OK/Kappa Alpha Theta)
    Bill Haslam (R-TN/Sigma Chi)
    John Kasich (R-OH/Alpha Sigma Phi)
    Brian Sandoval (R-NV/Sigma Alpha Epsilon)

    Senate
    Kelly Ayotte (R-NH/Delta Gamma)
    Michael Bennet (D-CO/Beta Theta Pi)
    Roy Blunt (R-MO/Kappa Alpha Order)
    Scott Brown (R-MA/Zeta Psi)
    Richard Burr (R-NC/Kappa Sigma)
    Kristen Gillibrand (D-NY/Kappa Kappa Gamma)
    Chuck Grassley (R-IA/Alpha Gamma Rho)
    Johnny Isakson (R-GA/Sigma Alpha Epsilon)
    Lisa Murkowski (R-AK/Pi Beta Phi)
    Dick Shelby (R-AL/Delta Chi)

    House of Representatives
    Robert Aderholt (R-AL/Kappa Alpha Order)
    Rick Berg (R-ND/Farmhouse)
    Kevin Brady (R-TX/Lambda Chi Alpha)
    Bruce Braley (D-IA/Phi Kappa Psi)
    Corrine Brown (D-FL/Sigma Gamma Rho)
    Vern Buchanan (R-FL/Local)
    Quico Canseco (R-TX/Tau Kappa Epsilon)
    Eric Cantor (R-VA/Phi Sigma Kappa)
    Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV/Kappa Kappa Gamma)
    Dennis Cardozo (D-CA/Theta Chi)
    Jim Clyburn (D-SC/Omega Psi Phi)
    John Conyers (D-MI/Kappa Alpha Psi)
    Jim Cooper (D-TN/Chi Psi)
    Robert Dold (R-IL/Beta Theta Pi)
    Charlie Dent (R-PA/Phi Kappa Psi)
    Eliot Engel (D-NY/Pi Lambda Phi)
    Sam Farr (D-CA/Sigma Chi)
    Marcia Fudge (D-OH/Delta Sigma Theta)
    Cory Gardner (R-CO/Farmhouse)
    Phil Gingrey (R-GA/Sigma Nu)
    Sam Graves (R-MO/Alpha Gamma Sigma)
    Joe Heck (R-NV/Beta Theta Pi)
    Steny Hoyer (D-MD/Sigma Chi)
    Robert Hurt (R-VA/Kappa Sigma)
    Jack Kingston (R-GA/Lambda Chi Alpha)
    Tom Latham (R-IA/Alpha Gamma Rho)
    Chris Lee (R-NY/Psi Upsilon)
    John Lewis (D-GA/Phi Beta Sigma)
    David McKinley (R-WV/Beta Theta Pi)
    John Mica (R-FL/Delta Chi)
    Richard Neal (D-MA/Tau Kappa Epsilon)
    Alan Nunnelee (R-MS/Sigma Nu)
    Steve Pearce (R-NM/Farmhouse)
    Tom Reed (R-NY/Delta Sigma Phi)
    Dennis Rehberg (R-MT/Delta Upsilon)
    Jim Renacci (R-MS/Sigma Nu)
    Todd Rokita (R-IN/Sigma Chi)
    Tom Rooney (R-FL/Lambda Chi Alpha)
    Paul Ryan (R-WI/Delta Tau Delta)
    Steve Palazzo (R-MS/Sigma Chi)
    Pete Sessions (R-TX/Pi Kappa Alpha)
    Austin Scott (R-GA/Sigma Alpha Epsilon)
    Terri Sewell (D-AL/Alpha Kappa Alpha)
    Steve Stivers (R-OH/Delta Upsilon)
    Rob Wittman (R-VA/Delta Tau Delta)
    Frank Wolf (R-VA/Alpha Sigma Phi)
    Steve Womack (R-AR/Kappa Alpha Order)
    Daniel Webster (R-FL/Tau Kappa Epsilon)
    Lynn Woolsey (D-CA/Alpha Phi)
    Kevin Yoder (R-KS/Lambda Chi Alpha)

    posted by Frat Champ      November 17th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

  • This is the southern gentlemanliness you’re talking about? -

    TFM: “Making a sorostitute do the walk of shame while the walk for the 5Cure is passing in front of the frat castle”
    TFM: “You call it shacking, I call it auditions”
    TFM: “Building character six inches at a time.”
    TFM: “Chanted ‘Walk of Shame’ as my own slampiece walked out the front door.”
    TFM: “Blowjobs and ironed shirts.”

    Are there assholes in the north? Yes. Are there assholes outside of fraternities? Yes. Are there True Gentlemen in fraternities? Sure.
    None of that makes you immune from criticism for posting misogynist crap like the stuff above. The fact that the rest of the time you’re a True Gentleman doesn’t make you better — that just makes you a hypocrite.

    posted by Ben Cane      November 17th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

  • You should read it like the vulgar humor that it clearly is. If forums available for public consumption indicate something “more” than an “in joke,” then what is stand-up comedy? Oh, only one of the most obvious mediums for pure social satire? Right. The shock effect is there by design, and as somebody who is in charge of all the stand up comedy that comes through my school, I would know something about it. Do you really perceive a post like that as a threat? Couldn’t you tell it was designed to get at people who affiliate themselves with cliche-blanket-cause-activist-groups; groups whose entire existence is premised upon complaining about stuff as it arises? Moreover, do you actually agree with the interpretive argument Ms. Schlossberg makes:

    “I see a deep-seated ter­ror in the hearts of all these frat­dad­dies and soros­ti­tutes. The world has moved away from a time when white south­ern men held domin­ion over the rest of the coun­try. In any other con­text than their frats, these men would not suc­ceed. They rely on their con­nec­tions because they have to. They spew racism and other forms of hate speech because that is the only way they know how to cling to a world that doesn’t exist any­more.”

    I’m not in a frat, I don’t live in the South, and yes, I know a lot of the posts are vulgar. Yet somehow I knew that the purpose of TFM isn’t even close to what Ms. Schlossberg thinks it is… but that’s probably because I don’t go to Yale.

    PS:

    http://totalfratmove.com/173716

    posted by Sense of Fratire      November 17th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

  • Satire reflects truth. If it didn’t capture something true, it wouldn’t be funny.
    TFM (intentionally or not) reflects something about frat culture, north or south.
    Tatiana was horrified by what the satire exposed. She’s not the only one.

    posted by Ben Cane      November 17th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

  • and all made their pledges bring them fast food and their slampieces bake them cookies

    posted by Ben Cane      November 17th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

  • Nobody cares about the north/south thing.
    People care about hyper-aggressive fraternities that dominate campus culture, perpetrate date rape, and whine, whine, whine when anybody calls them out on it.

    posted by Ben Cane      November 17th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

  • Thank you! Being a member of a sorority and at an SEC school and with mildly liberal views (i hate to say it) it is sad that people can’t laugh at TFM and recognize that most of it is an exaggeration.

    posted by wine and silver blue      November 17th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

  • 10% of date rapes take place in frat houses (actually in frat houses). That has nothing to do with the number of rapes committed by frat brothers in any other location – which is disproportionately higher than any other group of people. But 19% of on-campus sexual assault (in America as a whole) are committed by athletes, while varsity athletes comprise 3% of student populations.
    Date rape has been a big problem for fraternities nationwide. It was a problem at Yale. And the most serious issue is that, when a frat brother is accused of date rape, the tendency is for the brothers to rally vocally around the accused, insult the victim’s integrity, and say, even if something happened, well, it’s just part of the good times.

    There are plenty of good things about frats – obviously, people really like being in them.
    But an all-male student group with a purely social purpose and with access to alcohol is going to operate aggressive and misogynistically. That’s the perennial problem for frats. It means frats have to take more responsibility than any other campus organization – not just to have some good qualities but to actually be better/treat women better than GDI men. Obviously that’s not happening. TFM is part of the problem.

    posted by Ben Cane      November 17th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

  • Good post.
    The question is how people respond if you criticize the bad. If frat culture can’t take criticism (and responds by lashing out at the critic), then there’s a problem.

    posted by Sam      November 17th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

  • I love you

    posted by ALG      November 18th, 2010 at 12:45 am

  • Mr. Sam,

    Since you’ve personally called me out, I feel the need to respond, yet again. While I appreciate your “concern” for my life, how I live it, and for the men I associate myself with, I don’t need or want it. You’ve stated that it was tough to see me defend a lifestyle where I’m routinely called a sorostitute. Really? Frankly, I’ve never heard that word uttered out of anyone’s mouth. So please don’t try to imply that I have been called this or anything else derogatory. I would be the first to call that man out. In actuality, the gentlemen I know would call him out and force him to apologize, among other things. Those are the kind of “southern gentlemen” I associate myself with. They are the ones who respect who I am and what I have to say, stand when I do, walk me to my door, make sure they are only a phone call away when I need them, show the utmost respect to the the women in their own family as well as mine, etc. And all of this is done inherently. Those are the men I know and am proud to call my boyfriend, friends, and family members. Don’t get me wrong. I’m sure that there are some men in the North that treat women respectfully as well. I’ve yet to meet them. I’ve vacationed in the North, gone on conferences, and have met fraternity men from schools like Yale and I have to say that I am glad to know the men I know. Never once was anything done out of the kindness of these “Fraternity” men’s hearts and I was surprised. I expected better out of all Fraternity men and I can only be grateful that I never had to associate myself with them again. Therefore, my standards do not need to be questioned because I, in fact, know exactly the reason why I defend the men I know and their “southern gentlemanliness”.

    The reason why I don’t take TFM seriously or what is being said is because it is posted on the internet (and on a site that really isn’t considered to be important). I can’t stress that enough. It’s comparable to collegehumor, fml, tfln. Really. It’s not a site I would use for a paper, speech, or anything else I would deem important for my knowledge. I go on this site to get a laugh. I feel quite offended that because I laugh at the things posted on the site, I need to raise my standards. I don’t because frankly, I don’t really care what these people (I don’t know, who are anonymous, and might even be GDIs) call “me”. I am confident in myself and confident in the men that I am friends with to know that I am not a said “Slampiece” or “Sorostitute”. I don’t disrespect myself in that way and I may sound arrogant to say this, but I consider myself to have too much class to even do any of the things that are posted on TFM. And a reminder, many, if not all TFMs and TSMs, are grossly exaggerated or fiction. Yes, there are, in fact, some sorority girls who put themselves out there to be treated as such, but my sorority and the other sororities I am friends with do not associate ourselves with these women. They have such low self-esteem and low confidence in themselves that they feel the need to go to these “fraternity” men, who have no regard for women and treat them terribly. We consider these sororities and fraternities bottom tier. I don’t befriend those types of people, and if that makes me an elitist, so be it. I’d rather be one and hold myself in higher regard than be a superficial friend to all.

    I am proud of the men I have been acquainted with and those are the men I am talking about. Tatiana generalized a complete genre of people when, in fact, there are those few “bad apples” who make a terrible name for us. I’m sure you can understand that there are bad apples everywhere in life and if you don’t feel the need to separate from them, then you clearly are one as well.

    Like I stated before, I judge my “southern gentlemen” on how they treat me, talk to me, and the way they live, not by remarks made on a website by some anonymous poster. I think that is what I called close-minded, which is what we Greeks have been trying to tell Miss Schlossberg. Judging an entire community on how we regard ourselves and live day-to-day on satirical website made for Greeks to laugh is completely ignorant. I regard experience as a key to forming opinions and Miss Schlossberg has NOT done that. She wrote solely based on TFM. If she had written about her own experiences and interactions with fraternities and sororities in REAL LIFE, I would, at least, respect her opinion. I’m sorry that you associate with and listen to the wrong people to think that it is my obligation and right to be offended by what is said on TFM. It isn’t and I’m not. I’m confident in my way of life and who I am to know that I do live by my sorority’s teachings and values to the highest standard and I expect and am shown the very same from everyone I know.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 18th, 2010 at 12:49 am

  • Thank you for this, It is so true.

    posted by Razorstrat      November 18th, 2010 at 1:18 am

  • To state the obvious:
    Why, when a woman doesn’t like a joke, does she get told that she has no sense of humor?
    If a man had written this article, would that have been the response?

    posted by Sam      November 18th, 2010 at 1:27 am

  • Sam

    Where do I start with you? The beginning..

    1 “Tatiana’s speak ing for a lot of people – women especially – who’ve felt that fraternities have had a toxic effect on their college experience. Look, fraternities tend to be aggressive, tightly organized, well-funded, with access to alcohol, and disproportionate influence over campus life. And what do fraternities do with their influence? Orches trate date rape (10% of campus date rapes occur in fraternity houses) and rally around brothers who are caught. If you’re a girl on campus, you can’t really avoid it: at some point in college one of your friends is going to get date raped in a frat house and then, lots of luck getting the frat brothers to take your side in it – or you play it the fraternities’ way, join a sorority, and then you’re easy pickings (‘a sorostitute’).”

    Firstly this is a wholly collectivist statement. Lumping all Greeks into one category is as ignorant as lumping all black people into one category. Please explain to me where it’s acceptable for you to be prejudiced in your views but I can’t be prejudiced in mine.

    Secondly, Fraternities are full of college aged men with hormones raging, much like the larger campus population, albeit exclusively Male.

    Thirdly, if 10% of on campus date rapes occur in Fraternity houses where do the other 90% take place? Moreover, where do other sexual assaults take place on campus? Truthfully, I’d be much more interested in a profile of who is committing these offenses rather than where they take place. It only seems logical to look for people who fit the description of the alleged offender.

    Fourthly, if 90% of on campus date rapes don’t take place in Fraternity Houses, why is it your belief that any girl’s friend who gets raped will ultimately be raped by a Fraternity member? Remind me never to take you to Vegas…

    Fifthly, we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, so it is only fitting that a brotherhood supports each other in times of strife. Granted, it wasn’t a Fraternity, but dare I mention the Duke Lacrosse Case? What happened their? A girl lied to the police about what happened, in turn Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton got a whole slew of folks riled up over a completely false allegation. People’s lives were affected who weren’t even involved – the Coach, for one, was terminated based on completely on the lies of (at the very least) a person with a long history with Law Enforcement and Gung-Ho District Attorney in Mike Nifong.

    Sixthly, I’m not blaming the victim, I’m simply suggesting people take some personal responsibility. If you’re worried about joining a sorority and being “easy pickings” then DON’T RUSH. If all your friends left the party and you’re drunk CALL A CAB. If it is so apparent that Fraternity Men are as evil as you make them out to be then DON’T ASSOCIATE WITH THEM.

    Seventhly, the biggest part of the college experience is learning to deal with adversity. Yes, I’m a white male from an upper middle class, two parent family. My first roommate in college was, 1. black, 2. a cheerleader, 3. a homosexual. We came from very different worlds and had difficulties learning how to live with each other. And no, it didn’t have a happy ending. That lasted two weeks and ended when he raised a fist to me. Granted I laughed hysterically in his face. I wasn’t intimidated, but I certainly wasn’t going to allow anyone to intimidate me or negatively affect my time in college. Which brings me to…

    You’re in College, and while you may not be Adult enough to legally buy a beer or rent a car or run for Senate – you are Adult enough to take responsibility for your actions. The first person responsible for your well being IS YOU! If you won’t take care of yourself why would anyone else?

    2. “Tatiana’s not say ing shut down the fraternities (although there’s an argument for that). She’s saying, if you have great power, have a little fuck ing responsibility to go with it. There’s some thing obviously flawed about a culture that leads the galaxy in date rape, takes a smug kind of pride in every thing about its traditions, and lashes out viciously at any criticism.”

    E-mail me if you really want to discuss this as I will be censored if I make any mention of it here.
    joenobodyjp@hotmail.com

    3. “To respond -

    a) Doing satire doesn’t mean nobody can criticize you. As ‘A Sphincter’ pointed out, “It’s an online community in which ‘I don’t think that is funny’ is met with the riposte ‘you are a crazy bitch who has no sense of humor.’” Satire doesn’t give you a free pass. Satire means you’re inviting criticism. If you actually getcriticized, deal with it.

    – Sure, it’s put out there and you’re entitled to your opinion. You can disagree all day with every shred of my belief system and
    that is your Constitutional Right, endowed to you by your Creator, not by government…which leads me to go off on a slight
    tangent: If you deny the existence of a Creator and/or God do you deny yourself your rights? How can I be endowed with
    rights by a Creator if I don’t believe in ACreator?

    b) All anybody sees of fraternities is an aggressive we’re in-you’re out campus presence; obviously that’s what TFM is all about. The fact that you also do community service doesn’t mean you get to be an asshole the rest of the time.

    – This is a collectivist statement. I’m sure the American Cancer Society views my fraternity as aggressive…in fundraising. See,
    it goes back to rallying around a member of my brotherhood going through a rough patch. Specifically, non-Hodgkins
    Lymphoma – he had it as a youth, but it his experience serves as in inspiration to my brotherhood – he was never the biggest
    dog in the fight but he was always had the biggest fight of any dog. When he suggested we participate in Relay-For-Life we
    rallied. The first year was at his high school, the next year we brought it to our campus where it has been a highly successful
    annual philanthropy event and continues to get bigger every year. You can mock the oath I swore to my Brothers, but I value
    my oath, my honor, and my Brothers.

    c) Grow up. If you post on a public forum, people are going to read it, including people who don’t share your values. If you offend some one, you don’t get to be angry at her for being offended.

    – If you’re going to be a journalist, especially an opinion writer expect people to disagree with you on a regular basis. I know I’ve
    learned the most in my life when I’ve challenged my own beliefs.

    d) Tatiana isn’t say ing the south is elitist. She’s looking at quotes like, “Just drove through the poor section of town – it was out of my way but worth laughing at the unfortunates” and “Can’t we pay someone to do this?” and “My dad’s taxes are so high he gave me and my brother each another share in the company” and getting a little bit of an elitist vibe wafting in her directions.

    – Allow me to invoke Louis C.K. If being a minority is so terrible why would I not be thankful to be white? I’m thankful for my
    family, I’m thankful for my eduction, I’m thankful for my race. I’d rather be lucky than good. If you’ve never had to do something
    so unpleasant that the thought of paying someone to do it would be far better then you’ve clearly never scrubbed a toilet.
    While my wealthier Brothers could afford to go out drinking on a regular basis, I worked the door at a bar, dealing with ornery
    drunks and ultimately cleaning various shades of vomit from the commode at the end of every night for a pittance. And
    scrubbing those toilets motivated my sorry ass to do better for myself and God willing, my Family.

    Must I tear you apart anymore.

    If can’t concede that this is a blatant case of the pot calling the kettle black then I don’t know what discussion is left to be had.

    Not everyone at every school is there on their own intellectual merit. In fact given the studies on the rates of academic dishonesty and cheating it is very fair to say that many people in many colleges are not their based on intellectual merit.

    Riddle me this…I have a cousin who was valedictorian of her high school class and maintained a 4.0 gpa throughout a private Catholic high school. College prep doesn’t even begin to describe the workload. All the kids in this family were over prepared for college, so much so that they all waltzed through it. Yet when she applied to UVA, arguably the finest public school in the nation, she was wait listed and one of her classmates who could barely maintain a 2.5 was accepted. Does that really sound like getting to where you are on intellectual merit? Actually…not to spill the beans, but it’s more like affirmative action.

    Now yes, her parents had the means and understood the sacrifice of paying for their six children to receive the finest education available to them, and as a result they have six highly successful children, an oral surgeon, a plastic surgeon, two accountants, an entrepreneur, and presently a Dentist, but most likely to become an Oral Surgeon in the future. While my uncle may be a dentist, he is by no means a millionaire. He’s a retired Army officer who served in Vietnam, went to Dental School and busted worked long hours to ensure his children would be better than he. Is that not what every parent wants, for their children to lead better, more comfortable lives than they did?

    It’s only fitting that I wrap this up with a quote from Animal House:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYb_anBMus

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 18th, 2010 at 3:50 am

  • and apologies for misusing “their” instead of “there”

    It is afterall, almost four am and I am HAMMERED…

    posted by Sir Frat-a-lot      November 18th, 2010 at 3:52 am

  • I live in the good ole’ south and I would like to personally say that, in fact I do strongly believe fraternities have a significant amount of impact on the way “fratdaddies” act. Cool story: I met a guy this summer before he left to go back to college… guy is 27 and acts as if he’s 21, no kidding. We hit it off and had a summer romance… the southern charm was there throughout the summer. He was delicious. We did fall in love yada yada yada. Then came August when he went back to college and rushed frat… hhhmm… you can probably tell where this story is going to go but I will just go ahead and tell you. We stopped talking up until the beginning of October and he kept insisting I come to visit him (3 hours away) and assured me things would be great. So I did. It was like a re-lived the summer in just one day-and-night with him. When I left from there he had a hard time saying goodbye and I could tell it was because of the feelings we have for one another. I came home and he sent me a text and told me he couldn’t see me anymore because he’s not suppose to fall in love with anyone, he’s having too much fun in college, and he had a feeling if he invitied me down there all his feelings for me would come back, and in fact they did. I go to his FB page and his status says “no pre-scheduled slampieces this week, i’m down to do whatever” Needless to say, that drew the line for me to finally cut him off completely. I asked him why he wuld refer to me as a slampiece and he said because his frat brothers couldn’t know that he was in love. HAAA!!!! so I said goodbye!

    I will conclude by saying YES these arrogant, or egotistical assholes really do exist…. and things did not use to be this way. OH! and if you are 27 stop acting like you’re a freshman in college!

    posted by Opinions, Opinions      November 18th, 2010 at 9:58 am

  • You don’t know that. And by making generalizations about the Greek system, you are only perpetuating the stereotype you are trying to deride.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 10:50 am

  • Ben, the quote “Building character six inches at a time.” refers to something called “bows and toes” used for hazing, so get your facts straight. Again all of these are used for SATIRE purposes!
    On a side note, “Pansy and Pearl”, you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for posting
    Another side note: Greeks have overall better GPA’s than gdi’s do on every campus I have ever been to, so when the author talks about how proud greeks are of being ignorant, uneducated and unsuccessful academically that point is null and void.

    posted by Nick      November 18th, 2010 at 10:51 am

  • Ben – I bet you are the life of the party and people love talking to you in social settings. Stay off of TFM, it is obviously giving you an ulcer. This world would cease to exist without you and your moral compass.

    posted by Fratlanta      November 18th, 2010 at 11:19 am

  • Now, I just want to point out, since you are clearly alluding that all these authors were Greek, they aren’t. Therein lies the problem with generalization between the South and Greeks. If you had read closely there are both men AND women. Broad Recognition is trying to “censor” our comments when we are merely just trying to defend these stereotypes that you give us. huh.

    posted by JW      November 18th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

  • Excellent work on finding that, and good point.

    This article is simply one snob fuming about another group (that she very passionately dislikes) that is acting snobbish. It’s absurd. It’s the pot calling the kettle black.

    posted by LegacyFrat      November 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

  • WIN..
    Total Feminist Move.

    posted by Mdiallo      November 18th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

  • Tatiana
    Haters gon hate.
    TFM is not nuanced enough for anything about it to not be a generalization. A group that operates as a general mass, a community with “in jokes” and anonymity is essentially a single amorphous organism. They’re up in arms because they sense the truth, and it bothers them.
    As for this pathetic enthusiasm for the Southern “gentleman,” I’d much rather open a door for myself than by pandered to by someone who will later get his jollies in his frat house writing about having non consensual sex with an Asian “slampiece”.
    What the fuck are you guys drinking down there?

    posted by Mdiallo      November 18th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

  • 10% of date rapes occur in fraternity houses? So 90% occur outside? Yeah- use that statistic to fuel your argument against fraternities. Basically what you are saying is that fraternities are safer on campus that anywhere else.

    And yes, Greeks are disproportionately represented in campus organizations – because they are the ones applying, and taking the steps necessary to improve their college campuses, not just for them, but also for future students. These people are making a difference, and for that you berate them because the group you are a part of has no interest in getting involved? That’s jealous rage, pure and simple.

    And there is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage and traditions! I would love to hear you say that to a black person who is proud of their heritage. Instead, you choose to say that to white Southern males- because you know that as a group, they often maligned because of their power and influence. Being proud of where you come from is not a crime, and it only makes you look ignorant to say otherwise.

    I’m assuming you are enjoying this criticism, since no one is above it, as you claim. And by the way, your heroine of sorts, Miss Tatiana Schlossberg, is a member of the social elite you so readily attack. She may attend Yale, which you have put on an ivory pedestal and claim is the center of all things intellectual and merit-based (a lie in itself- Yale is built on a rich legacy of accepting those who have connections to their institution).

    While you insist that fraternities have a bad reputation, I invite you to look at the statistics. Twenty-five percent of Fortune 500 CEO’s are members of the Greek community, as is every President with the exception of two since 1825. You also yourself admitted that Greeks are disproportionately represented in campus organizations- positions of prestige that don’t call to mind bad reputations.

    Enjoy living in ignorance, and spinning lies that suit your own prejudiced beliefs. I will stick to my own traditions of family values, manners, and philanthropy.

    posted by LegacyFrat      November 18th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

  • Thank you for writing a well-structured response. Bashing each other back and forth does not solve differences and it doesn’t fix prejudices based in ignorance. I commend you for extending an invitation. Most people are actually surprised by real Greek life, and just how hard you have to work to be successful.

    Your Southern Neighbor,
    Texas Alpha Chi

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

  • Sweetheart,

    One bad example does not mean you need to attack a nation-wide group of people…men and women alike. Everyone changes during college, hopefully for the better. But even within sororities and fraternities, not every chapter is the same. Try to keep that in mind and not hold a grudge. For the first time I am dating a guy who is actually a “gentleman” after 4 bad apples. And guess what? He’s a triple legacy fraternity member. His grandfather taught his father how to treat women well. I’m sorry you got treated poorly, Bless your heart. But try not to tarnish the name of all Greeks. Just focus on that one horrible 27yr old.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

  • It is a FRATERNITY not a frat. If you have never been a part of the Greek culture than you honestly have no idea what anything on TFM truly means. It is tailored toward a specific audience and if you aren’t in the target audience than you probably wouldn’t understand them. Just like we don’t understand mylifeisaverage.com

    posted by ProudtoBe      November 18th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

  • Wow…an Ivy League student acting intellectually superior and blatantly condescending. Stop the presses.

    posted by Southern Pride      November 18th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

  • May I point out that Tatiana took a website not sponsored or officially supported by IFC or NPC? She then attacked/ridiculed (whatever SAT verb you wish to insert), a nation-wide, diverse group of people. How is she being “textually” specific there? It hardly shows patience or intelligence when you don’t show any research, give allowances for great demographical differences, and base your arguments on a highly non-credible source…i.e. TFM. It isn’t a news publication, so why are you treating it like fact? That’s like believing everything in the National Inquirer. I just don’t understand why she didn’t look into it further before formulating her arguments. She over-generalized.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

  • I disagree with the concept of sparkly vampires but I am not up in arms against MyLifeIsTwilight.com….So I agree with your point.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

  • Don’t worry about Texas “not being in the South”. We were own country. We don’t need regional affiliations.

    —Trying to bring some levity. Hope no one freaks out.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

  • Making fun of the dead who supported states’ rights and conservative government makes YOU an ass. Have some class.

    posted by TexasAlphaChi      November 18th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

  • Tatiana’s not talking about the south and I’m not talking about the south.
    We’re talking about frat culture and TFM – where slampiece, sorostitute, etc are normal terms to use for a woman without any equivalent term for a guy.
    I wouldn’t argue if men are politer in the north or in the south, if you have more fundamentally nice guys in or out of a fraternity (you probably get the same proportion of nice guys and jerks everywhere), but frat tradition and frat culture gives guys license and encouragement to behave like jackasses through college. Might a guy in a frat hold a door for you? Sure. Might he be very sweet if you get to know him? Sure. But he’s also spending his time with a group of guys who expect him to be macho, aggressive, put bros before hos, dicks before chicks, and understand that his best self is when he’s with his brothers.
    Again, I’m not generalizing for the group of people who join fraternities; I’m not saying there aren’t good things about Greek life; but as an institution fraternities encourage men to think that they’re superior to women, to act confidently and aggressively and ignore what women actually want.
    That’s always been a problem with fraternities. The real problem is, if a girl says she’s offended by blatantly misogynist language and attitudes, the reaction is to attack her. She’s insulted; everybody’s getting on her case for it. It’s unfortunate that you are too.

    posted by Sam      November 18th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

  • As a Yale woman (grad) that dated a Southern man for a while in college, I’ll list a couple of things to appreciate (big and small) about Southern men.

    - In the words of an Alabaman young lady I know, “Southern boys know how to do things.” If something is broken (like a door, or a clock), there’s a better chance a Southern guy will know how to fix it than a Northeastern guy (especially if he grew up in a city).

    - Southern guys tend to have a “family values.” I don’t mean the kind of “family values” that implies homophobia, but the kind that means you love and respect your parents and have a close relationship with your siblings. The kind that means you fix up your parents’ house during your Spring break because you want it to be comfortable for them as they age (yes, Southern guys can fix up a house–said Southern man above spent a Spring break doing just this).

    - Southern men don’t rush. Northeasterners tend to rush around thinking that this will somehow make life more enjoyable or meaningful. Southern men, in my experience, know how to relax.

    Now, the Southern man I dated would never have called me nor any other woman a “slampiece.” I’m pretty sure he’d picture his mother, sister, and female friends, and think better of it. Why on earth are the boys who say these things being defended? There are so many things to appreciate about Southern men who are real gentlemen. Let’s not celebrate or defend the mysogyny and the racism (“Fucked an Asian slam­piece (yes they exist) and refused to pull out unless she screamed “Me so horny”. TFM”). And, please, let’s not respond to criticism of mysogyny and racism with yet more of it. That’s not very gentlemanly.

    posted by Ali      November 18th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

  • It’s hard to come up with good statistics for fraternities and date rape – if somebody’s charged with date rape, their fraternity affiliation doesn’t get recorded. The statistic is, that of the places date rapes could occur on campus – in a dorm, in an off-campus, in a car, in a public space – 10% are in frat houses, which is a lot.
    But, again, good statistics on campus date rape just aren’t available – mostly because of how often date rapes go unreported.

    Look, fraternities have an institutional problem with date rape and sexual assault. You know it, I know it, the people posting on TFM know it.
    Frats and a frat mouthpiece like TFM can either address the problem, ignore it, or mock the victims.

    posted by Sam      November 18th, 2010 at 8:32 pm

  • As a Yale woman (grad) that dated a Southern man for a while in college, I’ll list a couple of things to appreciate (big and small) about Southern men.

    - In the words of an Alabaman young lady I know, “Southern boys know how to do things.” If something is broken (like a door or a clock), there’s a better chance a Southern guy will know how to fix it than a Northeastern guy (especially if he grew up in a city).

    - Southern guys tend to have a “family values.” I don’t mean the kind of “family values” that implies homophobia, but the kind that means you love and respect your parents and have a close relationship with your siblings. The kind that means you fix up your parents’ house during your Spring break because you want it to be comfortable for them as they age (yes, Southern guys can fix up a house–said Southern man above spent a spring break doing just this).

    - Southern men don’t rush. Northeasterners tend to rush around thinking that this will somehow make life more enjoyable or meaningful. Southern men, in my experience, know how to relax.

    Now, the Southern man I dated would never have called me nor any other woman a “slampiece.” I’m pretty sure he’d picture his mother, sister, and female friends, and think better of it. Why on earth are the boys who say these things being defended? There are so many things to appreciate about Southern men who are real gentlemen. Let’s not celebrate or defend the misogyny and the racism (“Fucked an Asian slam¬piece (yes they exist) and refused to pull out unless she screamed “Me so horny”. TFM”). And, please, let’s not respond to criticism of misogyny and racism with yet more of it. That’s not very gentlemanly.

    posted by Ali      November 18th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

  • By “mysogyny,” I meant “misogyny.” Whoops.

    posted by Ali      November 18th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

  • Thanks for the time you put into your reply.

    In my college experience (I’m a graduate now), a disproportionate amount of campus date rape and sexual assault was linked to frats. Did other men commit sexual assault? Yes. The difference was that they didn’t have a network of tightly-organized, loyal brothers to back them when they were accused.

    A lot of people bear responsibility for misogyny, but frats – and a site like TFM – are among the worst offenders.

    There are a lot of good things (probably) about frats. Don’t defend the thing that sucks. Fix it.

    posted by Sam      November 18th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

  • Yeah, the DKE incident was really bad, and Yale feminists cried bloody murder and got the DKE chapter reprimanded by the national fraternity. The incident didn’t get press because the DKE incident was so unusual – DKE has had pledge chants like that for years. It got press because Yale Women’s Center had the nerve to call them out on it.
    “We don’t really have a playbook for dealing with something like this,” said DKE’s president — but something tells me the Yale incident wasn’t the first time something like this has happened, just the first time DKE has been confronted .

    posted by Sam      November 18th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

  • Thank goodness for your post, Tatiana. It’s a relief to know there are women out there recognizing these Fraternal and national issues, regardless of how your comments are received. As a Greek woman who sees great benefits in membership, I also recognize the Greek community has its flaws. Many of them were addressed in your article. Thank you.

    posted by Positively Panhellenic      November 18th, 2010 at 9:34 pm

  • Tatiana, I’m not commenting to argue one in support of your article or TFM, but instead to let you know that it is literally impossible for that photo to have been taken by Otis Alan Glazebrook. He was the founder of Alpha Tau Omega back in 1865 at age 19. He’s long dead.

    posted by Andrew      November 18th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

  • I’m merely talking about what you addressed to me. Like any one who feels the need to defend themselves after being insulted, that is what I am doing. You stated that I should question the “southern gentlemanliness” that I defend. Therefore, I should have the right to defend the South and the gentlemen I know there. I never once stated that I condone what all fraternity men do in my reply to you. I am merely defending all the men I know, which are fraternity men. You are overgeneralizing when you tell me to question all fraternity men. This is the problem. You are contradicting yourself. You can’t clump everyone into some nice little circle for you to point and criticize. If you do, I have the right to tell you differently. Especially if you have never actually met a Southern fraternity man. You say that the institution of Fraternities “encourage” men to think they are superior. From my personal experience from being a leader on campus and being exposed to all Greeks, the fraternity men I am friends with do not live by that. They live through their creed, oath, and values that are instilled in them. Sure, there are those fraternity guys who are jerks. Like I said before, thank the lord I don’t know them, or if I do, I stay away because I don’t need to be associated with them. I do know that those are the ones who treat women terribly. Again, I am confident in who I know to know that when these other “Fratdaddies” are talking about their “Slampieces” and the night they had, I know that the gentlemen with whom I’m acquainted with are not them. I judge a person by their character and how they treat me and the women that they know. I figure that if they have the utmost respect for their mothers and grandmothers and they show the same to me, I should have faith in that they wouldn’t call me a “sorostitute”. I don’t act in any way that would make me one and if I choose to have fun, I am always responsible. I apologize is that makes me a horrible person with no amount of respect for women. If women can respect themselves, there wouldn’t be a need for “slampieces”. It’s really too bad that you are close-minded enough to attack an entire group of people when, in fact, it is only the few who put a bad name for the rest of us. You say you don’t overgeneralize, but you indicated the Fraternities as an institution. That is a contradiction.

    As for your comment about Miss Schlossberg being attacked because she found things offensive, I find it to be quite close-minded and ignorant of her as well to overgeneralize which is what her entire article was about. Maybe because this is from a feminist magazine that she feels attacked, but I can tell you this, if this was a published article by a male writer in a respected media outlet, it would be the same. Her opinions are based, not on her own experiences with the Greek system, but on what she saw on TFM. She generalized and used an unreliable source like TFM as her primary and only source to insult the entire Greek system. A system that is widespread throughout the country (and world, actually), with hundreds of chapters, organizations, and councils. I am merely defending the people I know and who I associate myself with and if that makes me wrong, I apologize if that offends you and I am too weak-minded of a woman.

    I can only say so much while you attack me because my views are different from yours. I don’t consider myself a feminist, but I do believe in the value of women and how they should be treated; and I value myself and am treated as such. The sorority women I am sisters and friends with are as well. I don’t associate myself with men who would even think to call me a “slampiece”. I have too much respect for myself. Please, focus on those weak souls with no confidence and bad manners rather than continually slamming an entire “institution”. We would probably be less vocal. I understand that this is a feminist magazine, but Miss Schlossberg and yourself have to understand that when you are criticizing an entire institution, we have the right to defend ourselves whichever that pleases us. I’m sorry that there have been terrible remarks made to her, which I don’t condone, but there have also been some very good points that you have been made that you should be aware of, like keeping an open mind. I, myself, have tried to come to this forum, with respect in mind, to state my point. By belittling me with your questions of my standards and values, and making me personally feel that because I choose to defend men I know, I don’t know my own worth, I can understand why it is difficult to not “attack” back with my reasons.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 18th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

  • The problems do get fixed. Remember, change is slow, but it does improve.There have been cases of “date rapes” from fraternity houses, but you are clearly biased and uninformed if you continue to accuse fraternities of backing up their brothers when they are accused. When the accused is brought forth, our national headquarters are brought down to investigate. When you refer the fraternities, you should be aware that there is the collegiate chapter, the alumnae, and headquarters. Headquarters are very serious about crimes and thoroughly investigate. Even the Greek Life offices become involved and it gets extensive. To say that brothers loyally back each other up is really not true. Once nationals gets involved, it becomes too serious to use loyalty as an excuse to defend your brother. That brother is usually kicked out. Just keep that in mind when you begin to accuse fraternities of being loyal. The truth is always revealed and Nationals does not BS about crimes.

    posted by Jessica Wilson      November 18th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

  • satire doesn’t reflect truth like a mirror. it reflects it like the water of a pond when you throw a rock in it: some parts are diminished, some parts are grossly exaggerated. the majority of the posts on TFM are of the latter.

    honestly, when it comes to being politically conservative, a good deal of TFM is at least somewhat true. the hazing, its honestly still kind of up in the air at this point. it happens. if you pledge a fraternity, in all likelyhood, you will face a moment where some form of psychological or even ‘gasp’ physical hazing occurs. some of it has gotten out of hand historically, which is why it is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

    otherwise, TFM just like any other story a fraternity guy tells his brothers. bullshit and exaggerations. all guys do this. geeds or not. if you say you don’t, then you sir, are a liar. thats like being a guy and saying you don’t masturbate. it doesn’t f-ing happen that way. unless you are smashing a drunk sorostitute from tonight’s swap. TFM

    posted by deltamupike      November 19th, 2010 at 12:47 am

  • thank you, ma’am. excellent rebuttal.

    i just moved to cornwall, NY, from Vicksburg, MS and people up here sometimes act astounded when i hold the door for them, or open a door for a lady even if i am not going inside myself. and the few women i have dated from here are certainly shocked when i refuse to let them pay for a drink at a bar. it’s the gentlemanly thing to do. I don’t know why the guys up here don’t do it. seems like most of them lack manners and/or social aptitude for anything more than ‘hey girl, you could get that, you know’

    as far as lil mis so-and-so’s article, claiming southern greeks to be ignorant? i went to a very liberal c-usa school, which is about as NF as they come as far as TFM is concerned… except for the schools proximity to new orleans and the gulf coast, which are both pretty darn fratty…. anyway… the all-mens average GPA was usually around 2.1, 2.2. the all-greek mens average GPA was usually around a 2.7, 2.8. i graduated with a 3.1 in 4.5 years, while having a job, competeing at the national level for a semi-professional paintball team, and staying as fratty as i could. show me a geed with that kind of college resume, and i’ll offer him a bid.

    posted by deltamupike      November 19th, 2010 at 1:15 am

  • I didn’t say any of them were Greek.

    I said all were Southern and all were Intellectual.

    posted by Frattington Bear      November 19th, 2010 at 10:21 am

  • Nah…Glazebrook was just really ahead of the curve on Color Photography…

    Kodak my ass

    posted by Frattington Bear      November 19th, 2010 at 10:25 am

  • People care about hyper aggressive elitist schools dominating this entire country’s culture. Let us have the campuses. You can also keep your date-rape stereotyping, as I am sure that you have never been within 40 feet of a fraternity house and are therefore in no position to judge.

    posted by Not Ben Cane      November 19th, 2010 at 11:27 am

  • again Thank you

    posted by kai      November 19th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

  • What a crazy rant! I think it’s especially ironic that a feminist article would dehumanize women in sororities, wholesale, by labeling them “sorostitutes” and plainly suggesting that they debase themselves sexually. I like this insane, ranting trend in feminism. It makes the movement, which has become ridiculous and excessive in many cases, polarizing and irrelevant to mainstream America. Keep up the good work?

    PS – I’m not a big fan of frats or sororities, but the fraternities on my campus include people of all races and sexual orientations. That’s right, there are openly gay men in fraternities now. It’s 2010. There are also service fraternities, which do community service together, and fraternities that are designed for the sole purpose of celebrating ethnic diversity. Furthermore, at many schools the Greek system GPA is much higher than the school average. Get a life and quite being so resentful!

    posted by Mark      November 19th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

  • Sam – You are mistaking your opinion for fact. In my 26 years, i have never heard a human being utter the word “sororstitute” or “slampiece”, they are only words that pop up in maybe text messages or websites. Just like no member of a “frat” actually calls it a “frat”.

    Unless you were a pledge and active member at ever Fraternal Organization across the US, your opinion is just an opinion, and frankly, its from an outside perspective looking in on something that they dont quite understand and you are desperately trying to attach labels and generalizations to.

    Some personal situation happened between yourself or someone you know and a White, Male, Fraternity Member and you have taking up some completely rediculous crusade to associate all White Male Fraternity guys and lump them into this category of beer drinking, aggressive, overly macho, testosterone filled, loud mouthed assholes that rape women because we believe “No means yes and yes means anal”.

    The DKE incident, while in poor taste, was pretty funny. Should they be punished, maybe, thats up to the school to decide.

    Relax, have drink, dont be such a tight ass, stress can really mess you up.

    posted by Fratlanta      November 19th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

  • It’s done, simply, for the lulz

    posted by FratmanJones      November 19th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

  • It’s very clear that you just don’t have fun. You sit there and you study all day, and you write these articles linking things together with insanely bad theories. The tea party movement and the bro movement are two totally different things. Sometimes guy’s just want to bro it out, does that involve some smooth Natty Ice’s and a trip to the titty bar? Yes. Is that a bad thing? No. Without bro’s drinking smooth Natty Ice’s and hitting up the titty bars, the economy would slump further. Go back to your dorm room, think about the last time you had fun for the sake of having fun, and then think about if anyone other than other extreme liberal feminist’s actually care about your rants. Then see how you still feel about yourself. If it’s good, congrats you’re way further along on the crazy train then I would’ve thought, if its bad, crack a smooth Natty Ice and chill for once.

    posted by FratmanJones      November 19th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

  • It’s a fraternity, not a frat. Furthermore, Greeks raise more money and contribute more hours to community service projects in our area than any other organizations. In fact, there are several homeless shelters and other fundraisers that DEPEND on Greeks to volunteer. As a sorostitute (yes that is a term I use with absolute pride) at a school that does not have a huge Greek system, I interact with Greeks and non-Greeks (GDIs) on a regular basis, especially at the bars in town. Fraternity men are the ones who will buy you drinks, call you a cab, and actually try to talk to you. GDI men are the ones that are sketchy and try things like randomly grabbing women’s bodies in the vain hope that one of them will respond to them. TFM is an absolutely hysterical website that, as it has been said before, caters to a specific audience. If you’re not in that audience, you won’t understand it. So, Ben Cane, don’t get your cargo pants in a twist and look to your own GDI brethren, who, at least in my experience are usually much bigger pigs than any fraternity man, and figure out, why if you’re so high and mighty, GDIs don’t have their own website.

    P.S. I have a 3.5 GPA, have been accepted early to several Ivy League law schools, and cannot wait for the day where I can sit home, take care of my fratlings, and make my husband a sandwich after a long day of work.

    posted by hootie hoo!      November 20th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

  • Understandably, the posters of this site do exhibit some qualities that aren’t really PC. However, I would argue that the majority of the comments posted on this site are either satirical or complete exagerations. To that point, this site isn’t supposed to be a representation of greek life in the south as a whole, it is intended to bring a sort of entertainment value to those who can relate and laugh about the stereotypes that they are inevitably given for being a part of one of these organizations.

    Before you bash these people for having a good laugh, you should look at the statistics for greek organizations in the country, we are statistically smarter, more successful, and involved in more philanthropy than many other organizations. That is not a boastful statement, that is a statistically proven fact.

    Lastly, as an editor of a magazine endorsed by one of our country’s finest learning establishments, I am appalled at your attempt to link the tea party to this site, and to this type of behavior as a whole. In no way has the tea party exibited or condoned any behavior of this type. That was obviously a low blow to a legitimate conservative, grassroots movement in this country, and you should be ashamed of yourself for lowering your editorial standards to this.

    posted by Adavis      November 20th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

  • Being a know it all Yale student with a hefty student loan debt and no social life? GDI. Getting into UPenn on merit and still going to an SEC school. TFM.

    posted by Brover Cleveland      November 21st, 2010 at 12:57 am

  • I couldn’t agree more.

    I understand that most of the posts on TFM are exaggerations meant solely for entertainment, and I think people should take this into account when reading them. Just as Greeks shouldn’t make generalizations about those who aren’t like them, it isn’t fair for those who aren’t involved in fraternity/sorority life to judge Greeks based only on what they read on TFM.

    However, I do feel that many people on TFM are very quick to lash back at anyone who dares disagree with their viewpoints. One post, for instance, stated that the North is pretty “frat” as well – not more “frat” than the South, but “frat” all the same – and many posters from the South wasted no time beating this down. This post wasn’t an insult to the South at all, and yet, Southerners immediately felt the need to fight back at the slightest hint of a disagreement.

    I think that’s what saddens me most about this site. I know plenty of awesome people who belong to sororities and fraternities, so I fully understand that many of the posts on this site are naught but humorous self-criticism. It’s the insecurity of the people on the site that frustrates me, not the posts themselves. They feel free to announce their own values, but attack anyone who tries to state different ones.

    And on one last note – Sam, I appreciate your ability to comment on the article and express your opinion in a clear, organized, and mature manner. It’s easy to call Tatiana names, insult her, and say she has no right to express her opinion. I’m impressed that you rose above this immaturity and discussed your views in a polite manner. I wish more of the people here would do the same.

    posted by Arden      November 21st, 2010 at 1:34 am

  • This is the kind of maturity I wish more people here would possess. Here is someone involved in the Greek community who has the confidence to admit that, yes, there are problems with Greek life that need to be addressed. If only everyone would be this open and accepting of opinions and values that are different from theirs…I think many of these flaws would be fixed.

    Thank YOU.

    posted by Noelle      November 21st, 2010 at 1:40 am

  • Comments like these are exactly the problem.

    Tatiana was expressing her point of view. And instead of disagreeing politely and offering up a different viewpoint, you lash back at her with comments and insults that aren’t even logical. This is what I don’t understand – some members of sororities and fraternities claim to be confident, intelligent individuals, yet their insecurity couldn’t be more obvious in their inability to take criticism. Of course, I am not generalizing here – many Greeks are willing to accept people’s criticism and move on. However, it’s the ones that feel the need to fight at every turn that make me wonder who the REAL immature people are.

    posted by Felicity      November 21st, 2010 at 1:48 am

  • You are convinced that the people on TFM mean what they say? What convinced you? Tatiana’s bullshit column? Do you have any proof, or are you just taking liberties to judge? If you knew a single thing about fraternity life, Southern life, or just decent human life in general, you would thus understand that none of this is serious, and the great majority of individuals posting on TFM.com are rational people who do not seriously think like this. It is merely jest. Go help clean up the oil spill if you want to do something useful. Don’t sit around casting judgement on people and cultures with which you are completely detached, and then acting like you did something useful.

    posted by South Carolina Lowcountry      November 21st, 2010 at 1:59 am

  • Looks like someone didn’t get a bid…. Keep up with the riveting opinion pieces, I’m sure you’ll land a great job writing an advice column for other Geeds (GDI, sorry, I’ll translate for you), but keep in mind the fact that the president of the media company you work for was probably Greek. So word of advice, while extremely thoughtful and gripping… probably wouldn’t use this piece as an example of one of your finer works; I’d choose something along the lines of women earning unequal salaries, or how you feel gays ‘deserve’ the right to get married (topics I’d wager a large portion of my trust fund that you’ve written about). In summation, calm down, and maybe take a look at all of the good things that fraternities and sororities do before you start ranting about how the Greek culture is ruining moral fabric of American society.

    P.S. Having fun once in a while really takes the edge off, life isn’t all about your next assignment. Go grab a 6er of Natty Ice and see what the winning team is like (won’t get you a bid, but at least you’ll be away from the computer)

    posted by Bronanas      November 21st, 2010 at 2:09 am

  • “That has nothing to do with the number of rapes committed by frat brothers in any other location — which is disproportionately higher than any other group of people.”

    You’re so blinded by your disgust for Greek life that it has driven you, like Tatiana Schlossberg, to make utterly ridiculous and factually deficient statements such as this. “Sam” said that 10-percent of date rapes on college campuses happen in fraternity houses.

    When “Frat Champ” points out the fact 10-percent is a rather small percentage, you have to come back with some meritless comment that essentially suggests date rapes committed nationwide among college students off campus are disproportionately perpetrated by fraternity members. Really?

    That is ludicrous. Do something to prove that you aren’t so pathetically unscrupulous as to say something like this without any trace of proof.

    posted by South Carolina Lowcountry      November 21st, 2010 at 2:38 am

  • Fraternities do address it. In my fraternity, at least (and I assume in every fraternity under the governance of the North American Interfraternity Conference due to corporate liability and other insurance issues) pledges have to complete a course on legal and health issues surrounding hazing, drug/alcohol abuse and sexual harassment. After taking the course, individuals must take a test and score at least an 85% on said test in order to become eligible for initiation into the fraternity. National fraternities and their Boards of Directors are well aware of the problem and work hard to ensure that it does not persist.

    posted by South Carolina Lowcountry      November 21st, 2010 at 2:54 am

  • Look, Sam, I understand that fraternity brothers are essentially wrong when they defend a brother who has acted in what is most certainly an unbrotherly fashion by committing a date rape. My issue with what you continue saying about that aspect is that I feel you’re neglecting to acknowledge the real reasoning behind taking such an action.

    As fraternity brothers, men form tight bonds. In society at large, it is common for people to form groups and seek support and gain solidarity from those groups. If someone in that group then comes under attack, the other members of the group naturally rush to said members defense.

    So, I find it perfectly normal and acceptable for fraternity brothers, team members, families, etc. to defend one of their own when that person comes under attack, whether it be physical, psychological or philosophical. The first response when protecting a love one who has been harmed is to vilify the perpetrator of the attack. In this case, calling a woman a liar, slut, whore, bitch, etc who accused their fraternity brother of allegedly raping her. What devoted family member, team mate, fraternity brother, etc. isn’t going to come out and stick up for a loved one after he or she has come under attack?

    Where the issue takes a turn is when the brother is proven to have committed the crime. Standing by him then is expected. Defending him is not. I think you’re mistaking the support you’ve heard fraternity brothers offer to their own members in days following an event like this for actual condoning of the act. When you see some loud mouthed kid saying to a TV news reporter, “Bro X would never do something like this. We’re behind him 100%,” You’re seeing that familial support.

    That’s completely different than coming out and saying Bro X was right to commit rape. I assure you that has never happened.

    posted by South Carolina Lowcountry      November 21st, 2010 at 3:14 am

  • Get over yourself, Tatiana. I’m a fraternity alumnus. I too, am a journalist. I’m an award-winning journalist. I worked hard for that distinction. That said, I’ll share with you a lesson I learned two-fold. I wrote a column early in my career that attacked the logging industry. I alienated several friends in doing so. It wasn’t until later that it dawned on me that not one single soul would’ve read the words I wrote had it not been for the loggers who harvested the timber used to make the newspaper on which my column was printed. You attack a group of people and their culture without fully understanding it, and you make yourself out to be an uneducated ass. In that sense, you and I each have committed the journalistic and childish sin of speaking without knowing a thing about what we were saying. A brief few years after my original transgression, my editor shared with me these words: If you don’t know shit about it, don’t right your column about it.”
    I appreciate that you feel you’re accomplishing some greater good by simply writing a column filled with liberalist notions of what’s wrong with America, and how a ridiculous Website like TFM.com somehow embodies those problems, and also how we should aspire to change. But, you’re fighting ghosts — accomplishing nothing. This is mainly because what you’re attacking isn’t a legitimate problem. Furthermore, your admonishing of the Greek and Southern cultures for elitist and nostalgic tendencies while lauding the Ivy League culture you are a part of borders on arrogance and hypocrisy. In saying that the qualities espoused by “Yalies” are eschewed by Southern, fraternity men, you display blatant ignorance. Your column was poorly researched. Your notions and comparisons are radical and lack merit. Frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. What does that tell you?

    posted by South Carolina Lowcountry      November 21st, 2010 at 3:49 am

  • The website is a joke. Are all of the FMLs real or TFLN? No. They are mostly just jokes. There is some truth about tfln. We do dress nice. We do take pride in our greek organizations. There really aren’t many racist statements on the website. Most are jokes anyways. Greeks do a lot of the community. We do a lot of volunteer hours and as a whole better GPAs than non-Greeks. You stereo-typed the Southern Greeks from one website. You are not a good reporter if that’s all you can do.
    P.S. The only reason you got so much attention on this article is because someone posted it on tfm. I doubt your other publishings are as popular…

    posted by Sratty      November 21st, 2010 at 4:05 am

  • Hey, check out the site. This is one of the most bias articles I have read, granted there are some pretty ridiculous things, but there really isn’t that level of racism or sexism that takes place. Read the website and make your own decision.

    The South Will Rise Again

    posted by Robert E Frat      November 21st, 2010 at 3:19 pm

  • ITS ALL A JOKE.
    SAM, SIT DOWN AND POUR A SHOT OF WHISKY gdi. TFM.

    posted by Robert E Frat      November 21st, 2010 at 3:33 pm

  • In relation to the 10% statistic that Sam posted (not saying I agree with his argument in general,) 10% of all college students are in the Greek system. Thus, 5% are in fraternities (probably a little more.) Assuming that all rape in fraternity houses is done by fraternity members, that means 10% of rape is done by 5% of university students, or 10% of males. So really, without looking into rape performed outside of fraternity houses by fraternity members, for which there is no information, fraternity members have the same share of rape charges as do others.

    posted by Steven      November 21st, 2010 at 3:39 pm

  • I was born in the south and raised in the south, and am a member of a southern fraternity. I just wanted to thank you for publishing this also. Ill keep being a gentleman in appreciation for people like you for noticing.

    posted by Bob Daly      November 21st, 2010 at 6:23 pm

  • I am young woman in a sorority at a southern school. I know many men in fraternities and I know that not a single one of them would ever date rape anybody. In all honesty, they really never would need to.

    posted by Diamonds and violets      November 21st, 2010 at 9:28 pm

  • I recently discovered TFM.com and I personally think it’s hilarious. I go to Notre Dame, and though we don’t have fraternities or sororities, we do have somewhat of an elitist reputation across the country because people hear Notre Dame and think it’s full of rich snobs living off daddy’s money…which to me sounds quite a bit like the elitist reputation greek life gets at schools that have fraternities and sororities. And you know what, yeah, there are some poeple like that here, just like there are probably some people like that in fraternities and sororities, but that doesn’t mean everyone fits a stereotype. Ever think that sometimes its just entertaining to talk about being stereotyped?? I’m a girl at Notre Dame who isn’t fat and ugly, so I get stereotyped as a dumb rich girl whose out for her MRS. So I play up to that sometimes BECAUSE IT’S FUNNY. My friends and I were reading thru TFM and a lot of the things they talk about on there we were like “oh that sounds like us too.” People everywhere like sperrys and gameday saturdays (ND may not be in the south and our football team may completely suck, but believe me when i say we know how to gameday) and shacking up with boys and baking cookies . So don’t hate on people in greek life for these things. I’m not a sorority girl but I like my Ralph Lauren oxfords, pearls, longchamp bags, and the Republican party as much as the next girl and you bet your ass I enjoy making jokes about it so go ahead and judge me too – i’ll just sit here and judge you for being a liberal feminist who finds herself superior based on your Ivy league education and more advanced moral code.

    oh, and have fun being a starving writer with no connections – networks like the greek system or a strong alumni club (which while I’m sure your IVY LEAGUE school has, you’re probably just too good for such yuppies) are going to get people like us a hell of a lot farther in life than people like you.

    have a nice life :)

    posted by ML      November 21st, 2010 at 9:52 pm

  • Amen. Thanks for the post. Watch out for the PC police.

    Your point about “racism” was dead on.

    posted by Brosef      November 22nd, 2010 at 11:33 am

  • That’s damn right, and I thank you for posting this. I am also from the north and I joined a fraternity at southern school (a school, by the way, that people don’t really think of when they think of the fattiest college campuses) and I can safely say that I has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. My fraternity taught me the value of being a gentleman and of just plain being a good person. Furthermore, in regards to TFM.com, I read the website all the time and have a few laughs, however, Ms. Schlossberg I think your comments are miss guided and incredibly bigoted. Thinking that, everyone in the south treats women badly, is a racist, and is illiterate, is just as bad as anything said on TFM.com (the worst part, for you, is very few things on TFM are true). I for one love the time I have spent in the south and I am ashamed, to call myself a northerner,because of people like you, driving a wedge between the people of our great nation, when your time could be better spent actually learning something about the south and the values that it upholds. That, Ms. Schlossberg, would be a compassionate and holy act, eliminating your own prejudice and being brave enough to risk your preconceptions being wrong in the name of truth.

    posted by Wheat Barley Hay      November 22nd, 2010 at 1:06 pm

  • 1. Just to reiterate, the only reason you get any attention regarding this article is because you are being mocked on TFM. So if that was your goal then you succeeded.
    2. The fact that you associate this website with a nation in crisis is actually shocking. You got into Yale with that kind of thought process? Didn’t realize Ivy League schools were getting EASIER to get in to. Having said that, people like you are primarily the reason Greeks (such as myself) make fun of GDI’s. Articles like this only add to any ammunition that we have against you because of your slanted and bias view against Greek organizations. I’ve met many non-Greeks who think the site is hilarious, because they realize its a joke. My suggestion would be to hop off your soap box, get a sense of humor, and do something more with your column than draw false conclusions and submit yourself to embarrassment.

    posted by Frat Hard, Frat Often      November 22nd, 2010 at 6:28 pm

  • Writing a whole article about how disrespectful southern fraternity guys are is just making yourself look bad for judging them and writing an article to put them down. Being a Yale student doesnt make you better than anyone, especially when you take your time to write an article and trash talk other people. If you believe what these guys are saying is wrong, then look at your own actions too. I am a country sorority girl and this article bothers me, because I know for a fact the southern men are the MOST polite men I know no matter what anyone says.

    posted by FFFcountrygirl      November 22nd, 2010 at 6:56 pm

  • Well put, thanks!

    posted by FFFcountrygirl      November 22nd, 2010 at 7:40 pm

  • I am a southern boy in a fraternity. I joined because of the posatives of involvement in that group as outweighing the negatives, and the strongest growth for me in networking and business skills. Through my fraternity I learn leadership, cooperation, and dedicate myself to service of the community and campus. I take pride in my fraternity and I am insulted by the date rape accusations of the Greek system. I hear the same stuff on my campus, and some fraternities have a repuataion for it, but by far more have a repuatation for being respectful and involved on campus. Not only to fraternities put together most of the campus activities, Greek alumni make our universities what they are. No other group has such a large commitment to continued alumni involvement in growth in size and quality of their undergraduate universities. Guys will be guys wherever you go, but while the other guys are out at the same parties and same social situations, saturday mornings all year long you will find philanthropy fundraiser activities run by every fraternity and sorority, making the campus and the community what it is. I love my brothers and they are making me a better person, and although I’m sure what Tatiana says regarding the fraternity lifestyle expressed through TFM is not the road America wants to be on, but everyone needs to understand TFM is not an accurate representation of the daily lives and commitment of the Greek system. TFM is made for extreme cases of partying gone wrong, girls falling for the charm and elloquence of men who hold themselves to a higher standard. Please stop generalizing the system that has done far more good than harm for our country. You don’t have to agree with us, and we don’t have to get along, but there is no denying the accomplishments and contributions the Greek world has done.

    Thanks

    posted by NCPike      November 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 am

  • Dear Ms. Schlossberg,

    You and several of your most attractive “Yalies” are cordially invited down to Nc for a Saturday playoff game.

    You have my word that at all times you will remain safe, surrounded by stimulating conversation.

    You will have doors opened for you, drinks poured for you, and jackets offered you should you become cold.

    Should you stay the night, I’m sure one of us will front the money for your hotel room; a blatant waste of our trust funds.

    If, as I suspect might be the case, you spend one weekend with us and suddenly feel the irreconcilable need to transfer to my institution, let me know. I just so happen to serve as the undergraduate liaison to the admissions committee. ( I don’t know how well that Yale transcript of yours will tread water with us ignorant hicks )

    If not, we will all wish you a safe drive home ma’am, and only ask that you send us a quick text once you’ve made it back safely to that frigid, yankee-ridden wasteland you call home.

    Welcome to the South Tatiana, Damn glad to meet ya.

    With warmest regards,
    John.

    posted by Phi Alpha      November 23rd, 2010 at 2:58 am

  • “Jef­fer­son Davis was a hideous racist.” Really… for someone that attends “Yale” and “pride ourselves on our history,” that’s what you pull out? Davis was on the Military Affairs Committee, was elected to both houses of Congress, and was the most competent Secretary of War of the 19th century. He has a road named after him in Washington D.C. Did you know that Miss Yale?

    Don’t be so quick to point the finger to a true American-hero. Just because he wasn’t on your side of the “imagined” Mason-Dixon line, he was a great man that followed his dreams, and contributed more to his country than you (despite your “Yale” education), will ever be able to.

    TFM

    posted by JD      November 23rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm

  • Sorry, how does all the disprove that he was racist?

    posted by wait      November 24th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

  • It wasn’t supposed to disprove it he was simply stating that you shouldn’t judge him just because he lived in a culture and time where slavery was ACCEPTABLE. So don’t speak about an American Legend in a derogatory manner he changed American History, so have some pride in your country and support it whether it was right or wrong because it got us where we are today and i’m damn proud of that

    posted by DKE      November 25th, 2010 at 4:37 am

  • Ignoring for a second the danger of supporting any institution simply because of a personal association, “whether it was right or wrong”: Jefferson Davis is primarily famous for activity supporting a country that was not, in fact, mine. It strikes me as distinctly unpatriotic to celebrate the leader of a seceded faction that attempted to destroy my nation.

    posted by wait      November 25th, 2010 at 9:54 pm

  • To quote the article:
    “These men and women wish to return to a world where merit means nothing. They are proud of being stupid and academ­ically unsuccessful, because they think the world will reward them for being in a frat and having wealthy parents..”

    I hate to break it to you sweety, there’s no “returning” to a world where merit means nothing. We never left. You’ve obviously never been to places like Alamo Heights, Highland Park, or River Oaks. That’s the brilliance of compound interest. It just keeps multiplying. No intelligence necessary.

    And being academically successful only proves one thing. You were academically successful. So what.
    That Phd you’re working so hard for will only ensure you’re a slave for the corporations that loaned you the
    money to pay for Yale in the first place….corporations owned by the mumsies and daddums of the TFM crowd.

    Like I said, that’s the brilliance of compound interest. No intelligence required.

    posted by Billable Howard      November 26th, 2010 at 2:09 am

  • Girfrenn, u gotta take the site with a grain of salt. Where is your sense of humor? hopefully in a few years yull realize it aint got nuffin to do wif intelligence. just some kids tryin to make each other laugh

    posted by Topdawg      November 28th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

  • wait,

    “Jefferson Davis is primarily famous for activity supporting a country that was not, in fact, mine.” Do you remember who was in charge of the Union Army before the end of the civil war? Ulysses S. Grant was in command of the Union Army. He also owned slaves. So you support Ulysses S. Grant who owned slaves which in fact was your country at that time. George Washington also owned slaves. The best part comes from Robert E Lee, he didn’t owned slaves. So there’s no point in arguing about people who lived during the civil war. Besides the south left the union and was attacked for that. So to say that they “attempted to destroy my nation” is false. All they wanted was to leave the Union.

    People like you, Sam, Ms. Schlossberg, and the few I missed, have such slanted views on this topic. Ya’ll love to hate it. Ya’ll hate the fact that we (myself included) could potentially have an easier more successful way through life. A fraternity is like an investment. You pay to be a part of this organization and in return the organization will help in life after college. So it’s like your 401K (I’m assuming you know what this is). It is there to make your life easier in the future. My father, who laughed at the ignorance and “poor penmanship” of the article, wishes he could have afforded to be Greek in college. He had trouble paying for MIT, granted he graduated 3rd in his class with a chemical engineering degree. He said, “Son, it would have made my life a hell of a lot easier in college and coming out of college.” This is why both myself and my sister are members of a Greek organization.

    I don’t understand why people have it out southerns. Northerns walk around with a ship on their shoulder. I’ve only met 3 nice northerns, granted they were girls and I had my southern accent going pretty hard. There’s no need to bring anything relating to southern boys/guys/men into this at all. I was raised in a small town in southeast Georgia. I’m one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. So everyone needs to just stop talking about southern people all together.

    As for Fraternities doing dumb things… guess what it’s true. At the same time, we also have punishments based on the dumbness of the act. A fraternity works a lot like the government. They both have flaws and usually are corrected once realized.

    The power that fraternities and sororities have on campus starts at freshmen orientation. The reason for this comes from the alumni of that college/university who donate money. For the University I attend, the donations are almost all from alumni that were Greek.

    As to all this labeling of “slampieces” and so on, guess what we (as in the Greek community) didn’t start it. Most of these slang terms, except for sororitutes, come from TV show like ‘The Jersey Shore’. Hell the TV shows are worse. They actually depict the events happening, unlike TFM is all hearsay and joking around. So get off your Ivory towers on that one.

    I love G.R.I.T.S.,
    Derek

    posted by Derek      November 29th, 2010 at 1:38 am

  • I second that

    posted by SOROSTITUTE      November 29th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

  • Jefferson Davis an admirable man who all should revere. I agreed with everything you were writing until you made it into another tasteless, Yankee attack on Southern culture. Stay above the Mason-Dixon Line.

    posted by Blunder Sullivan      November 30th, 2010 at 11:48 am

  • Because Yale is a school for everybody…
    It is just teeming with poor people because Yale isn’t one of the most expensive, and exclusive Ivy League schools in the country or anything.
    There has to be some level intelligence involved as you have to be in college to join a frat or a sorority.
    You liberals up there need to realize that the majority of the site is college kids trying to make each other laugh. And the very few that are serious are making fun of GDI’s like you who have no sense of humor and can’t take a joke.
    Also, calling us racist is completely ignorant. I have never once seen a racist remark on that site. I am in a southern frat, and we have seven brothers that are Black, three that are Hispanic, and three that are Asian. While the majority of the brothers are white, the majority of the population in America is White.
    The only deep-seated terror that I have is that people like you look down on us like were poor, stupid rednecks, and that you will be able to vote for more people such as yourself that have no understanding what a joke is and would rather have the government do everything for you than create for yourself. You Progressives and Liberals sicken me with the thought that everyone is entitled to the same health care and living conditions even if they are too lazy to go look for a job, and then you want to tax the people that have done for themselves until they pay for everyone else.
    Take accountability for yourself, and if the sorrostitutes on this site allow themselves to be called that, then that is their thing, not yours. If you don’t like it then you can not allow yourself to be called that. It is a very simple thing to understand. Personal accountability.

    posted by Jacob      November 30th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

  • Do you even know how to speak English?

    posted by what?      December 1st, 2010 at 5:55 pm

  • You can almost hear the whistling as it goes over his head…

    posted by Locke      December 2nd, 2010 at 1:44 pm

  • Tatiana,
    Did you do any research on fraternities and sororities, other than reading totalfratmove.com, before writing this article?
    The website is a complete joke. Reading the comments on the posts will inform you that every one of the offensive ones are called out, every one of the ridiculous or plain stupid ones are called out, and other members of the site remind posters that they’re giving Greeks a bad name writing things like that. When reading you have to remember that it is a joke. Not once have I, or any of my sisters, been referred to or referred to ourselves as “sorostitutes”.
    Just to address your article; “Yalies live in an envi­ron­ment where it is cool to be smart, to do well on your own merit, to have a sense of his­tory, to help poor peo­ple.”
    We all live in environments where being smart is a necessity – Jacob said it, we wouldn’t be in fraternities and sororities if we hadn’t gotten into a post-secondary program and managed to stay there. History – the Greek system is all about history and tradition, we’ve got a great sense of history, and pride for it. As for the “poor people” as you so eloquently referred to them, I can only speak for my sorority but I know that this is just expected of all fraternities and sororities, we donate thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of community service annually. Do you?
    As for racism, I haven’t personally read any TFM’s which have come across as racist, not to say there aren’t any, but do you really think that of the hundreds of thousands of us who belong to fraternities and sororities throughout North America there isn’t going to be one racist? Did you know that there are actually fraternities and sororities founded specifically for minorities? They haven’t remained that was as every fraternity and sorority has become multicultural and completely integrated. But then I’m sure that’s not something you read off of a joke website.
    Honestly, coming from someone who’s the Man­ag­ing Edi­tor of the Yale Herald I would expect a little more research on your part.
    I didn’t take any offense to the website, but I’m slightly offended by your article. Meet someone in a fraternity or sorority, don’t worry that you’re not in one – we really don’t discriminate, though it sounds as though you discriminate against us – have lunch with them. We’re good people. So good in fact, that 17 fraternity gentlemen have been elected US Presidents.
    Thanks for the hate though.

    posted by Sorority Girl      December 2nd, 2010 at 7:34 pm

  • Dear Allah, Tatiana Schlossberg, I’m hoping that there is some underlying sarcasm embedded in this horrendous monstrosity of an opinion editorial piece. I mean, you must realize that the site is a complete and utter joke. If there is someway that you overlooked the ironic content of TFM, then I’ll be face-palming at the lack of critical thinking offered by the likes of Yale.

    posted by Broseidon: King of the Brocean      December 8th, 2010 at 6:59 am

  • My son sent me your article because he knew I would reply . Young lady you have no right and to try to camoflage your opinion as a feminist standard your words are very very hurtful. I am a teacher of 18 years, community contributor, mother of 3 and a tax payer and tea party member. I am also an alumn member of my local sorority chapter of Alpha Phi. This organization has meant more to me than you could ever imagine. I will soon be celebrating 25 years of initiation. The friends (sisters) I have the pleasure of sharing my life with are truely a gift from God. They are there whenever and how ever I need their support. You are basing your perception of greek life and culture on a silly college student run nonsense web site. The value of this life long bond I have with my sisters young and old near and far is priceless and the relatonships I have been blessed with are the best of my life. I can assure you most soroity members are nothing like you protray. You have a lot to learn about the world yound lady. The tea party is an organization that stands for hard work, love of country and family. My son is a Kappa Sigma at University of Florida (yes that is below the Mason Dixon line)Your words greately upset him as he has dedicated is life to the creed of his broterhood. He is and will always be a gentlemann who lends a hand to those less fortunate, a patriot, a man who walks in :the light of God” and one who will (even though you don’t deserve it) fight for your freedom as a member of the United States Airforce. “The people who make a difference in your life are not the ones with the most credentials. ..The most money…or the most awards. They simply are the ones who care the most…My favorite quote use your energy for good not hate!

    posted by Robyn Comeau alpha phi high school teacher of 18 years tea party member!      December 13th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

  • ^like

    posted by haha      December 13th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

  • “…we Yalies live in an envi­ron­ment where it is cool to be smart…to help poor peo­ple”

    Each year, at the University of Florida, the members of the Greek Community gather together for Dance Marathon, an event which raises money for Children’s Miracle Network, an organization that provides desperately needed medical equipment to children’s hospitals across the country.

    Last year the event raised $517,260.79

    Next time you bother to delve into journalism (which I presume is your field of study) please take the time to actually do some research. And while you’re at it, come down from the Ivory tower that is Yale and join the men and women in fraternities and sororities across the country who contribute to their communities and improve the lives of those around them. You may be surprised at how fulfilling it is.

    TFM

    posted by Fraternity Man      December 14th, 2010 at 12:01 am

  • Haha he got you, he knew of course you would comment on his grammer b/c he has you stereotyped just like you think you have the people on tfm stereotyped. You think your such intellects and the last hope for the human race or something.

    posted by patrick smith      December 14th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

  • Tatiana:

    I’m gonna go ahead and guess that

    1- You’re black
    2- You’re poor
    3- You have a 4.0
    4- You don’t have a job
    5- You’re socially awkward
    6- You’re jealous

    Summary: That you’re a GDI

    Don’t hate

    Love,

    The South

    posted by Fratdaddy      December 15th, 2010 at 3:47 am

  • Dear Fratdaddy,

    Your ignorance emphasizes her point, and you give the Greek system of the South a bad name. Stop adding to the stereotype.

    Love,

    One of the many sorority girls that are not anything like the sorostitutes described in this article or on TFM.

    posted by sorority girl      December 18th, 2010 at 12:43 am

  • Tatiana,

    Your op-ed is akin to going to a white supremacist website and using it to argue that all rural white Americans are neo-Nazis. Excellent appropriation of an irrepresentative source!

    posted by Jacob      December 19th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

  • Thank you Robyn Comeau alpha phi high school teacher of 18 years tea party member! Everything she said is so very true of my opinion of my sorority and my sisters. They are everything to me. Yes, there are stereotypes, but not all of us are “sorostitutes.” Some, like myself, have ambition and drive to be successful. While you rant about the doom our nation is sure to face solely due to the actions of some college students making a joke don’t forget that near 75% of all politicians ever elected are members of a Greek organization. This country has been in their hands for a while now, and the looming end of society as you know has not come.

    posted by notasorostitute      December 19th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

  • Not that I’ve done any research, but it was interesting to note that the posts on the site that got the most consistent “likes” where political, about liberal/left vs. conservative/right antagonism.

    I think that special political-social flashpoint for passion is also reflected in the comments.

    posted by Noah      March 1st, 2011 at 7:13 pm

  • While there are times that I cringe at the TFM site, I remind myself to take it with a grain of salt. I remind myself that group mentalities and anonymity can cause people to post things that they usually wouldn’t say or even think and that this is certainly NOT the general feelings of the Greek community. This is what you should have done before writing this article.

    As a southern Democrat, I am proud to be Greek. I have lots of southern and northern, conservative friends and sisters who are very near and dear to my heart and while we do not share political ideologies, we get along more than well. Just as a side note, I also know plenty of southern Democrats, just so I don’t further a false stereotype. Instead of attacking the political right, maybe you should try to understand their ideology, a political science class might help with that, because in order to save these poor people you and all of your Ivy league northern, private school tuition paying friends so passionate about saving, you’re going to have to work with them, whether you like it or not. Besides, Southerners are nice.

    That is one of the many virtues of being Greek: learning to communicate and collaborate with people who are different from you for a greater cause. The greater cause of course being our national philanthropies, which we raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for each year. How much money did you raise for the poor last year?

    Greeks also get better grades than Independents as a whole. We are required and encouraged by our organizations to get good grades in order to better ourselves academically and personally. That guy who got a 1.75 is probably on academic probation and since he is in a community of brothers, his brothers are probably helping him get his grades up by making him go to study hours and finding him the right tutors. That’s what your brothers and sisters are there for, to help you when you need it. Which is why the Greek system is so wonderful.

    I’m not excusing the comments on TFM, but as a member of the Greek community who knows a lot of good people in the Greek system who do not have “terror” in their hearts (a truly disgusting and irresponsible comment, by the way, considering the fact that the Greek system is not a system geared toward creating terror in other citizens and I do not know any terrorists in the Greek system).

    As an independent, I do not expect you to understand why the Greek system is so wonderful and important, but just a reminder, your precious Yale isn’t the only university in this country that wants to better the world, so pay your private school tuition and get over yourself, because you are part of an elitist community as much as the rest of us, Greek and non-Greek.

    posted by Proud to be Greek      March 11th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

  • Amen.

    posted by klassy alpha theta      March 12th, 2011 at 5:33 am

  • Tatiana,

    I’m a member of a sorority at one of the top ten schools in the US, and I must say I really appreciate this article. I am dating a boy in a fraternity and am very involved in greek life. I recently discovered TFM and TSM, and have been appalled at the things posted there. I am from the South originally and consider myself to be a Southern woman. I also value education and equal rights. There are African American girls, Asian girls, and Hispanic girls in my sorority, in addition to Caucasian girls. I do not come from rich people, and neither does my “frat daddy” boyfriend. So, needless to say, I have been outraged at the garbage posted on that website and labeled as part of greek life. You articulate quite well my own feelings about TFM; that it basically reflects the ignorant views of a small and shrinking group.

    The irony is that these people seem to think that the wealth and ignorance they brag about is truly a distinguishing character­istic of the greek system. I wonder if they’re aware of the fact that, at some schools, girls like me (Liberal, vegetarian, atheist, feminist, not from old money, planning to get a PhD, not sure if I ever want to get married), are being initiated into one of the oldest sororities in existence. I wonder if they would consider my sorority not legitimate or something because we’re not all white and rich. It’s interesting to think about, especially since the national branch of my sorority actively encourages scholarly excellence, independence, and diversity. It’s almost like this group has a set of values they wish to perpetuate (ignorance, old money, alcoholism), and they’ve chosen the greek system as like a host body for their bull shit.

    I have never and will never call any one a GDI. I think greek life is fun, and I love my sorority, but it certainly doesn’t make me better than other people.

    posted by Anna      March 12th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

  • I absolutely agree. It is ridiculous and hypocritical that Tatiana adopted stereotypes and vast generalizations in her own writing, even though that seemed to be what she was railing against. These statements completely disintegrated the credit and intellect of the article, and greatly infuriated at least one reader. I, for one, can say that the generalizations that were made are wrong, and just that – vastly overstated.

    I also agree with jacob, below. Well Said!
    “Also, call ing us racist is com pletely igno rant. I have never once seen a racist remark on that site. I am in a south ern frat, and we have seven broth ers that are Black, three that are His panic, and three that are Asian. While the major ity of the broth ers are white, the major ity of the pop u la tion in Amer ica is White.
    The only deep-seated ter ror that I have is that peo ple like you look down on us like were poor, stu pid red necks, and that you will be able to vote for more peo ple such as your self that have no under stand ing what a joke is and would rather have the gov­ern ment do every thing for you than cre ate for your self. You Pro gres sives and Lib er als sicken me with the thought that every one is enti tled to the same health care and liv ing con di tions even if they are too lazy to go look for a job, and then you want to tax the peo ple that have done for them selves until they pay for every one else.
    Take account abil ity for your self, and if the sor ros ti tutes on this site allow them selves to be called that, then that is their thing, not yours. If you don’t like it then you can not allow your self to be called that. It is a very sim ple thing to under stand. Per sonal accountability.” – jacob

    posted by Grier      May 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm

  • “While the existence and popularity of a site like this is horrifying and seems to reaffirm the ‘Tea Party’ values that the media tells us are ‘sweeping the nation,’ I’m not scared.”

    How on earth does a site about fraternities reaffirm Tea Party values? Do they devote a section to lowering taxes and repealing Pres. Obama’s health insurance mandate?

    posted by TPartE      October 11th, 2011 at 3:12 am

  • Stumbled across this article late at night and I have to say, this article is kind of lame… No offense, but namedropping the title of one book and then quoting exclusively from one website is a guaranteed way to make any argument you want. Possibly the author wanted to rip on the idiots on TFM but instead she launches into a political tirade backed up by no facts. (A brief summary of a book most commonly quoted by that special breed of wealthy hipster does not count.) This is an opinion piece, and it is a poorly written one at best.

    I think it’s unhealthy that all the commenters have WAY too much emotionally invested in commenting on a blog post. I definitely didn’t bother reading more than three or four comments. Can you say unbalanced? Harvard kids- go study and be frustrated like always! Yale kids- go get black out! Come on.

    And if anyone is asking themselves why I’m bothering to post if it’s so stupid, it’s because my only other entertainment option right now is watching The League, and I’ve already seen every episode like twenty times. (I’m still going to watch it after I finish this sentence.)

    posted by Alex      January 27th, 2012 at 7:31 am

  • Hello! I’m at work browsing your blog from my new iphone 4!
    Just wanted to say I love reading your blog and look forward to all
    your posts! Keep up the great work!

    posted by sizzling hot eins㳺e      October 26th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

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